Haggard-hawk

[Catmaigne]

I started thinking about the 355 LE2 motor I'm piecing together again since the season is almost over. I was hoping to get the block to the machine shop soon since I'm sure they'll be super busy over winter.

I found myself reading some reviews for the Morel 7717 (Summit HT217) LS7 style lifters on the Summit website when I stumbled upon this... here we go again

7717 problem.JPG

What he's saying is true. The lower bushing area (wheel side) of the Morel lifter body extends too far down and completely blocks the oil galley holes when the lifter is at the peak of a cam lobe. This means oil will have a much harder time making it to lifters at the front of the engine. I double checked this myself with a stock cam and it's true for gen 2 LTx too.

The pic below has a Johnson 2110 on the left, Morel 7717 in the middle, and OE LT1 lifter on the right. I put a red line where the bushing area ends on the Morel. It extends about 0.165" farther down compared to the others. Morel also says that these lifters are compatible with gen 1 and 2 engines, but that seems like bullshit and bad engineering.

lifters.jpg

I'm just gonna run some Delphi LS7s from BTR since my cam is lazy enough. I can't find anything better short of buying Johnson 2110Rs for $750. If I was forced to drop that much on lifters then I'd be shopping for a much better cam and springs.

[SSlowBoat]

I started thinking about the 355 LE2 motor I'm piecing together again since the season is almost over. I was hoping to get the block to the machine shop soon since I'm sure they'll be super busy over winter.

I found myself reading some reviews for the Morel 7717 (Summit HT217) LS7 style lifters on the Summit website when I stumbled upon this... here we go again

7717 problem.JPG

What he's saying is true. The lower bushing area (wheel side) of the Morel lifter body extends too far down and completely blocks the oil galley holes when the lifter is at the peak of a cam lobe. This means oil will have a much harder time making it to lifters at the front of the engine. I double checked this myself with a stock cam and it's true for gen 2 LTx too.

The pic below has a Johnson 2110 on the left, Morel 7717 in the middle, and OE LT1 lifter on the right. I put a red line where the bushing area ends on the Morel. It extends about 0.165" farther down compared to the others. Morel also says that these lifters are compatible with gen 1 and 2 engines, but that seems like bullshit and bad engineering.

lifters.jpg

I'm just gonna run some Delphi LS7s from BTR since my cam is lazy enough. I can't find anything better short of buying Johnson 2110Rs for $750. If I was forced to drop that much on lifters then I'd be shopping for a much better cam and springs.

I'd run linkbar lifters before spending that much on Johnsons

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[Catmaigne]

I'd run linkbar lifters before spending that much on Johnsons

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Seems like they're all $600+ with most of them being private label Morels or Comps that break all the time. I'm too cheap for nice Crowers or Iskys. Sucks that there's no decent mid range lifter like the Johnson 2110/SLR anymore.

[SSlowBoat]

Seems like they're all $600+ with most of them being private label Morels or Comps that break all the time. I'm too cheap for nice Crowers or Iskys.

think blackbird is running lunati link bars

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[Catmaigne]

think blackbird is running lunati link bars

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From what I gather, Lunati (and a bunch of other brands) was just private label Morel stuff in various flavors. You could get meh street series linkbars or fancy fork body ones with 0.750" wheels. Idk if that has changed but it seems like a lot of their stuff got discontinued and they barely have anything on their site. Morel also discontinued a bunch of part numbers and consolidated them all into the 7717, but this new design sucks for anyone without an LS. COVID really did a number on the lifter market.

[SSlowBoat]

From what I gather, Lunati (and a bunch of other brands) was just private label Morel stuff in various flavors. You could get meh street series linkbars or fancy fork body ones with 0.750" wheels. Idk if that has changed but it seems like a lot of their stuff got discontinued and they barely have anything on their site. Morel also discontinued a bunch of part numbers and consolidated them all into the 7717, but this new design sucks for anyone without an LS. COVID really did a number on the lifter market.

shows what was coming from overseas and what was not

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[JOATMON]

^^^^What he said. I can believe that. Seems like deja vu. Back about 20 something years ago all the hydraulic lifter mfg in the US shut down to about two if I remember correctly.
None of the cam manufacturers could supply you with lifters because they all came from the same places(that shut down).
For what it's worth I went with a middle of the line Howards when I did my top end overhaul. part#91160 I'm pretty sure they are made by Morel(at least the body).
They go 6500 no problem with Howard double springs.
Nolan

[JOATMON]

Wow, I just looked them up and they are getting between 535-640 bucks a set nowadays. I'd hate to price a top of the line. Just checked my file and I gave $439 for them in 2016
Summit is getting $629 nowadays.

[Catmaigne]

^^^^What he said. I can believe that. Seems like deja vu. Back about 20 something years ago all the hydraulic lifter mfg in the US shut down to about two if I remember correctly.
None of the cam manufacturers could supply you with lifters because they all came from the same places(that shut down).
For what it's worth I went with a middle of the line Howards when I did my top end overhaul. part#91160 I'm pretty sure they are made by Morel(at least the body).
They go 6500 no problem with Howard double springs.
Nolan

I think those Howards are actually one of the few exceptions and are made by Gaterman instead of Morel. I wish there was more info and reviews on the Gaterman GP1013 drop-ins since I have no idea what their track record is. They actually differentiate between LS and LT/SBC OE roller lifters.

Capture.JPG

I really wish Johnson still made the 2110 at $400-450 since that seemed like a super robust lifter at a great price. I've had them in my Camaro for years and they've been great. Nowadays, $450 buys you shitty GMPP LS7s or spend a little more for the questionable Caddy racing ones.

[JOATMON]

It's always been so iffy about who really makes specific brand lifters. In a long ago conversation with Kip Fabre (the owner of Cam Motion in Baton Rouge) he was the one that told me about all the lifter manufacturers going out of business. IIRC it would have been the late '90's or 2000. I was building a BBC and you couldn't find a set of hydraulic lifters anywhere. He tried to talk me into going low lash solid roller because solids were available.
If you want to get the truth about who makes what, he is the man.

According to this Mopar source, the Howards are Morel's ?;
Our Howards Cams Street Series Retrofit Hydraulic roller lifters are 100% USA Made in Cleveland, Ohio by MOREL. Morel started making lifters over 55 years ago for Eaton, and they now operate out of a 100,000 square foot manufacturing plant in Cleveland with over 100 pieces of manufacturing machinery, and they do all their own heat treating in-house, allowing them to maintain full metalurgical control. Sales and engineering for Morel is now handled by John Callies (of Callies Crankshaft fame.) They have grown to become an OEM lifter manufacturer for many other well known brand names such as Howards, Trick Flow, Erson, Lunati, etc. These high performance street lifters are designed primarily for ease of maintenance and reliability. They "drop into" a stock block with no machine work or oil system mods required, and work with all the steel billet hydraulic roller cams we sell, regardless of brand. The lifters have the bodies shaped with cold form technology, then Carbonitrided and tempered for proper hardness and maximum durability. They are then CNC-machined and fitted with precision check ball internal valving to prevent lifter "pump up." The roller wheel is hardened and tempered steel alloy, and the cross bars are made from heat treated stainless. These features combine to provide a broader power band and increased rpm potential, while still offering the low maintenance of a hydraulic cam. These are designed for street performance enthusiasts who want to upgrade to a hydraulic roller camshaft. These retrofit hydraulic roller lifters are specifically designed for street applications up to 6,500 rpm. Roller diameter is .700", and seat height is 2.661"Howards part number 91767.

It appears CamMotion has the 2110's that you spoke of, but the are pricey. What I kind of like about this cam grinder is the don't call them CamMotion lifters, they call them what they are. https://cammotion.com/lifters/ls-lif...nes-set-of-16/
I have no connection to them other than Kip freely gave me alot of technical help in the past. He's awesome.
Nolan