meanwhile in st louis

***popo8*** · 11-25-2015, 08:34 AM

Originally Posted by shownomercy

And since I am bored
https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2015...g-him-16-times

Thoughts @popo8?

I think the shoot itself was good. I think emptying all of his ammo into the subject when he was no longer a threat was excessive.

15' with a knife... dont know what was being said... or doing, i cant judge the threat any more than what i can see in the video.

I want to also note the subject was under the influence of pcp as well as other drugs... so only the people who were there actually know how he was acting and how much of a threat he was.

Fyi- supreme court has ruled that 21' with a weapon that can be used to cause seriously bodily injury or death is reason for lethal force.

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**SS RRR** · 11-25-2015, 11:46 AM

if dude was high on pcp with a knife that close then i have no problem with how many shots were fired. i will say that cop is a hell of a shot to empty pretty much an entire mag into the perp. i take it the caliber used was a 9mm?

**shownomercy** · 11-25-2015, 11:51 AM

Well city of Chicago charged him with first degree murder and awarded the victim's family $5mil before the body was cold... sooooo perhaps its not as cut and dry ?

**SS RRR** · 11-25-2015, 12:10 PM

i guess if it can be proven it was premeditated that charge may stick? if that is the case then sure, it is murder,. but if they rolled up on dude weilding a knife and acting crazy, fire away. the awarding of and charge could have been done to keep civil unrest to a dull roar. we'll see how that goes, especially if the cop is acquitted.

***popo8*** · 11-25-2015, 12:18 PM

Watching the video will never give us all the full story. All we can do is speculate... especially with no sound.

When we shoot a threat... we "shoot to stop the threat," a term that was changed from the previous "shoot to kill." With that being said... i guess the DAs arguement is that the threat was "stopped." But again... only the person threatened can articulate when they felt the threat ended.

I dont think the murder charges will stick, but u never know.

Wish we had sound. Will have to wait for the trial to hear the officer's account... that will be the closest to being put in his shoes.

Again... i think the shoot itself was "good." Its going to be a matter of the other shots being 2 excessive.

Also... if it can be proved (which i doubt) that the first bullet would have killed the guy, then the other 15 shouldnt matter (other than the excessivenes).

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**shownomercy** · 11-25-2015, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by popo8

Watching the video will never give us all the full story. All we can do is speculate... especially with no sound.

When we shoot a threat... we "shoot to stop the threat," a term that was changed from the previous "shoot to kill." With that being said... i guess the DAs arguement is that the threat was "stopped." But again... only the person threatened can articulate when they felt the threat ended.

I dont think the murder charges will stick, but u never know.

Wish we had sound. Will have to wait for the trial to hear the officer's account... that will be the closest to being put in his shoes.

Again... i think the shoot itself was "good." Its going to be a matter of the other shots being 2 excessive.

Also... if it can be proved (which i doubt) that the first bullet would have killed the guy, then the other 15 shouldnt matter (other than the excessivenes).

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But, again, what made this kid a threat?

Police report claimed kid "lunged" I have watched the video a few times and no way does he lunge to the cops. He had a folding pocket knife and potentially was in a PCP altered state, but made no direct threat to cops.

Why didn't they wait for a taser equipped patrol car to show up? Hell, even provoking the kid to charge then shoot would have looked better IMO. Why did the officer leave the car and immediately open fire on a kid walking away...? And thats overlooking the very probable single shot to shut down CNS and then following it with more shots on the ground part.

Way to many questions IMO.

***popo8*** · 11-25-2015, 01:49 PM

Police dont "wait for tazer." Thats not how it works. A threat is met with force that is equal to or greater than the threat, and required to stop the threat or effect the arrest.

As for what made him a threat... thats what i typed above... only the people on scene can answer that.

From the video i cant tell if his spin move is prior to or after being shot. I could easily articulate that move with a weapon in hand, at 15' or less deamed lethal force.

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**shownomercy** · 11-25-2015, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by popo8

Police dont "wait for tazer." Thats not how it works. A threat is met with force that is equal to or greater than the threat, and required to stop the threat or effect the arrest.

As for what made him a threat... thats what i typed above... only the people on scene can answer that.

From the video i cant tell if his spin move is prior to or after being shot. I could easily articulate that move with a weapon in hand, at 15' or less deamed lethal force.

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So with that logic, walking down a street with a pocket knife is enough of a threat to be unloaded upon by a cop who evaluates the scene in less than 10 seconds?

The spin is after he got shot I believe

***popo8*** · 11-25-2015, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by shownomercy

So with that logic, walking down a street with a pocket knife is enough of a threat to be unloaded upon by a cop who evaluates the scene in less than 10 seconds?

The spin is after he got shot I believe

Now ur just trying to take what i say and create hypothetical situations that are not equal to the little bit that we do know. I know how u think tho... so here goes.

At a minimum we know that there was more to the situation based on the article. The subject was already being investigated or attempted to be apprehended for susp of vehicle break ins.

Seeing him walking in the middle of the street shows his lack of cooperation.

While surrounded by law enforcement he pulls out and bares a knife, showing at least intent to menace.

Also by the way the car we were in was responding with lights for a while... clearly something was occuring that we can hear because there is no sound.

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***popo8*** · 11-25-2015, 01:57 PM

Originally Posted by shownomercy

So with that logic, walking down a street with a pocket knife is enough of a threat to be unloaded upon by a cop who evaluates the scene in less than 10 seconds?

The spin is after he got shot I believe

Also... we evaluate many situations in even less than 10 seconds... believe it or not... 10 seconds is a long time when already in the heat of an incident. Clearly other officers were on the scene longer as well and like i said above... we dont know all of the details that would be covered by sound... both on scene and over the radio.

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