HMMMMM, Very interesting.
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HMMMMM, Very interesting.
after this rental friday (rescheduled due to rain) next project...Quote:
Originally Posted by JOATMON
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injectors set up, i started gasket matching the intake to a edelbrock 7244 LT4 gasket, its not pretty, first time doing it, so i wont be posting pics lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...87fadceaf8.jpg
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rather frustrated and defeated. all this work, new fuel pumps etc. car suddenly decides it wants to go lean. on motor and on spray. rental today was a bust. financially i think im done for the season.
first pass motor car just felt shitty, figured oh its cold and humid and the plugs are fouled. second pass on motor went 12.55. wtf. check fuel pressure etc everything's fine. third pass sprayed it. on 200. car went 11.0
WTF
pull trap door check this and that nothings pinched etc. decided to try 1 thing, hooked the old bosch external up. so that was feeding into the main line like old times. car went 10.55 on 200, still walked lean, but not nearly as bad. so either somehow the fuel filter is now clogged, the in-tank sock is clogged, or the 6 week old racetronix is dying already.
atleast it looks fast
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...fac87f1e29.jpg
You're still running the factory pcm, right? Have you locking the wot blms?
Also, do you think you could log fuel pressure?
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i cant log fuel pressure. but i found the issue. the injectors i just put in are plugged due to a failed russell fuel filter element. the epoxy that holds the end cap on failed, became goo, and went to the injectors. fml. thats the OUTLET side of the filter. ugh I just put this element and injectors in when i did the pump, in augusthttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...799cd3776e.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by Catmaigne
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:( I was gonna ask about the injectors when I read this earlier as maybe clogged or just not flowing right (I've heard injectors even brand new can be hit or miss). Glad you found it out but damn that sucks as to why.
yeah, it sucks. but im calming down now. because i knew i was going crazy. it literally ran fine on the street on nitrous a week ago!
some cool pics from today. im packing it in for the year. just found the axle seal leaking worse on the driver side.
im gonna flush the system tomorrow just to get a good vid of my new muffler, then proceed to pull the intake and start the single plane swap. i gotta call strange for the axle seal
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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9b62f9d00f.jpgAttachment 40532Attachment 40533Attachment 40534
Attachment 40535
Double check your solenoid & lines coming off them that no gunk made it to those (I'm not super versed in nitrous so ignore me if that isn't applicable, I'm assuming it's a wet system, I'm too lazy to review)
i have a dedicated separate nitrous fuel system. pics up above somewhere. it is what it is. as long as the motor comp/leakdown tests ok ill keep going. gotta finish porting the intake tooQuote:
Originally Posted by Z28pr0jekt
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oh yeah, it got into the injectors. SHIT.
so i tried just blowing the injectors out with brake cleen, making sure screens looked clean (best i could visually see) and flushed the main feed from the filter with seafoam backwards. took it for a ride and on a motor hit it still walked lean lean. so decided thats it for this year.
i did get my new custom porter muffler on today though, atleast i got to hear it.
https://youtu.be/HJaKj7oPxVA?si=k3ISQGbPNpn5aayz
after that pulled the LT4 intake off. Looked like #6/#7 may have been seeing a little oil from the 7777 intake gasket.
started fitting a efi single plane, but already ran into a problem. the LT4 head ports opened up to 2.3 sit higher than the intake, to the point a double gasket is required.
Think itll be ok RTV'd to all hell?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...b8501f4b1f.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...2fecbd7e0e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...438bb90274.jpg
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Is a thicker intake gasket available instead? Did you double check the FPR as well for the gunk?
edit: at least it sounds good lol
considering the fpr is after the injectors i would see high pressure then, and yes, i flushed it too. i have a autometer pressure gauge on the rail with the gauge in the center vent. the pressure is fine as it always is. this is definitely the injectors. the new set of plugs showed lean.Quote:
Originally Posted by Z28pr0jekt
flatout makes a .120 intake gasket thats like 70 bux....EACH. lol. even then, the literal height of the port vs the intake manifold is the issue.
i am gonna dry torque the intake to get an impression in the gaskets and see how it aligns ie if its even worth trying the .120 thick flatout gaskets. gonna send the injectors to josh hamming to get cleaned/flowed.
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Your port size sounds similar to my AFR LT4 heads. AFR 6860 gaskets might work for you.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/afr-6860
Nolan
thats not gonna fix the fact that the intake doesnt have enough meat to cover the port, and the port mismatch with a single 0.060 gasket. 0.120 gasket works perfect, just concerned about not having anything intake manifold side to put pressure on the top of the gasket at top of port against headQuote:
Originally Posted by JOATMON
the edge of the intake above the runners needs to be approximately .175 taller.
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AH, Gotcha. My eyes played tricks on me in your photo.
Nolan
this is what needs to be thickerhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...06758883a8.jpgQuote:
Originally Posted by JOATMON
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bad news. the way it ran friday/saturday has been really bothering me, along with the coloration of the intake runner on #7. so i did a comp test. cyl 7 only got to 140 cold and wet. everything else got to 185+
hodgepodged together a leakdown tester (basically just put 40psi to the cylinder) and with valves closed #7 hissing out the exhaust.
meh
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"BUT IT LOOKS GOOD", is what my wife always says when my junk is broke.
Hope you get it freshened up over the winter.
Nolan
HMMMM The intake mismatch has me wondering if a cnc cut adapter plate might be the ticket, especially if you know somebody.
Nolan
.120 intake gaskets will work. i ordered them from flat-out. i also built up the outer edge of the intake with alumaweld low temp brazing sticks the .150 it needed to ease my mindQuote:
Originally Posted by JOATMON
bigger concern is do i tear the whole motor down since the heads have to come off or just pull the heads
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If you burned #7 exhaust valve, should be evident when you pull the head ? ? ? And are the heads still going to LE?
Run lean = run hot, and #7 always gets the worst of it. That’s why the EGT was on #7. The exhaust valves are Manley Severe Duty.
The only real difference between the LT4 intake and the LT1 intake from the factory is the “meat” at the top of the runners. That’s why you can’t bolt a LT4 intake to a LT1 without modifying the valve cover rail. The put it there because of the 0.10” raised head ports. But GM never changed the intake ports, just left a big mismatch with the heads. The guy who ported my heads (Pete Incaudo, CNC Cylinder heads, Pinellas Park, FL) in 1999 claimed he worked w/ GM on the LT4 head development. He claimed they ran out of budget for the LT4 engine development, so they ignored the port mismatch. Figured they had the LS1 coming out so the LT4 was irrelevant.
i guess i really dont have a choice but to send them to Lloyd right now. Its definitely hissing out the exhaust on #7. but probably has an intake valve that got bit too which would explain the random intake popping back.Quote:
Originally Posted by Injuneer
135-140psig cranking compression on that cylinder, no change with oil added, the rest were over 180psig
from steve johnson at induction solutions (nitrous vendor) this morning on the phone, lean isnt what eats the valve, its actually being too rich and too retarded on timing. need fuel to make a flame.
as for the lt1 vs lt4 thing, yes correct about the intake, but because these heads are hogged out to a true 2.300 high port opening, basically any sbc single plane intake barring a raised runner intake (good luck finding one for 23 degree efi applications) does not have enough meat at the top of the runner to open to these LT4 head port without welding more on. i have both an edelbrock victor ported to a 1206 sitting here as well as the fleabay special, and both do not cover the top of the port
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i am also very happy to report valvetrain looks to be in great shape after the cam swap and this whole year of beating on it though lolhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...4307a43045.jpg
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Just thought I would mention (for future reading of this thread if it came up in a google search). The Edelbrock LT4 intake ports were a near perfect match to the AFR Gen 2 LT4 #1057 heads on my engine. BUT, stock LT4 gaskets leaked(sucked oil from the valley) and were not thick enough to seal at the ports.
The AFR 6860 gaskets(.060" thick) worked but I had to use grade 8 bolts and torque the piss out of them to get enough gasket compression. The pretty stainless bolts I wanted to use were stretching at about 25-30 ft lbs. I was afraid they were gonna break. Also used a halomar type sealant on both sides of the intake ports, along with black silicone at the very bottom of the ports AND on the intake rocker studs that protrude into the ports(that were sucking oil too).
Oh, also the intake bolt length on the four outer bolts had to be shortened a bit because they bottom out in the AFR heads before they get tight. I'm not sure if your heads are drilled and tapped all the way through on the outer bolts, but it's worth taking a look at just in case.
Nolan
These are oem LT4 castings so many of those issues are due to your aftermarket castings. bottom of port is fine, its the top thats the issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by JOATMON
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Did you use your HVAC oxy/acetylene torch with these rods? I tried them one time on a aluminum repair and couldn't get enough heat with a propane torch to get any penetration in the base metal. Just curious about your results.Quote:
Originally Posted by SSlowBoat
Nolan
just acetylene and preheat in oven. they work well on thin stuffQuote:
Originally Posted by JOATMON
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well the good news, the crosshatch is still in the cylinders so i think the rings are ok.
bad, can clearly see where the valve is not sealing, and is torchy (where it looks rippled)https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...e0a2726981.jpg
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Just curious. What and how much are you planning to gain out of this intake set up?
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better cylinder distribution with more nitrous. like to be bottom 11's on motor, maybe a hair better but i dont think it has it in it without a major diet, mid 9's on 200ish jets with a nitrous outlet stinger 2 plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon++S
oh, and because it looks cool
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I see. I thought you were mid 9's already. Definitely looks cool! I would like to see a pic of your new muffler setup. Sounds awesome
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9.90/9.93, not yet, soonQuote:
Originally Posted by Brandon++S
ill get you a pic tomorrow. its blue and round lol portermufflers dot com
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porters mufflerhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...063efebbdc.jpg
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one thing ive avoided, but now its happening.
me and @Ltconvert dropping the motorhttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...9937212ea8.jpg
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welp, we found it. so far only passenger side head off, but here it is. looks like #7 ate the electrode, like it broke off, and wedged between the valve/valve seat and head.
shit.
all exhaust valves have pitting on the seat surface, like rust pitting, as well as the seats themselves. exhaust guides have some play too. not sure how much this is gonna be, but oh well.
good news is bore looks fine, piston looks fine, rings look fine. thank you @Injuneer for using good parts when you built this.
also glaring obvious is the LT intake distribution issues when fogging infront of tb, can see the lead on the exhaust valves less and less from front to back. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...15f315f03b.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...234b6ae15c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/202...5d2da5d9df.jpg
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I originally suggested a plate for the dry nitrous. Second Street said no way, plate cylinder-to-cylinder nitrous distribution was terrible in the LT intake. They moved the nozzles as far forward as we could. Then using the injectors for all the fuel insured good fuel distribution. Bill was pulling all the plugs after the engine dyno pulls to look for signs of imbalance.
The BME pistons were custom made. They don’t sell off-the-shelf. It was explained to me that the pistons were very heavy, due to the heavier crown to handle the nitrous. The top ring was dropped maybe an extra 1/4” to get it out of the heat. (I wish I had taken a picture of one of the pistons). The lower ring pack and the higher pin for the 5.85” rods apparently cause the piston to rock more. The heavy weight and additional rock were explained as contributing to the “low” HP running NA.
When I put the NOS dry nitrous kit on it about 6 months after I bought the car new, I burned the electrodes off the plugs. I was running an aftermarket AFPR, and it didn’t respond correctly to the added pressure on the vacuum compensation port, applied by a slipstream of the nitrous, regulated through a CO2 regulator to boost the fuel pressure upwards to 80-90 PSI.
At first NOS thought the inline booster pump might have been bad. I lived less than an hour from the NOS facility in Cali, so they told me to bring the Bosch pump in so they could test it. Pump was fine, so I mentioned the aftermarket AFPR, and they said to try putting the stock FPR back in. That mostly solved the burned electrode problem. NGK plugs without the extended nose also helped. I realized at that point I was probably one of the first people running the 125 HP NOS 5176-EO dry kit. Really a nice boot in the ass on a basically stock engine. Surprised a Viper one night when it was running correctly.
it is what it is [emoji2369] if the fuel filter didnt plug that i had just put in it wouldnt have ate the plug and caused this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Injuneer
it will be fixed, it will be back. it could be much worse, those bme pistons are bad ass. surprised by a felpro 1074 and the fact that this is all the damage, a testament to the build quality, figured the head gasket wouldve been nuked too
i have stuff i wanted to change on here for a while too and now the car is wide open for some work. fuel lines will be rerouted, unnecessary wires removed, etc. guess this gave me a reason lol
she will live on!
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This looks like the perfect time to get her setup for a turbo.
.......this fuggin guy........Quote:
Originally Posted by shownomercy
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