The Resurrection: 94 Firebird Formula

That thing left on that 10.84 pass. Good job

Sent from my SM-S901U using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Injuneer

The converter was spec’d to flash to 5,000 RPM with the full hit of what was a 275 shot. From the engine dyno, that was almost 800 lb-ft. That's exactly what it did on the chassis dyno. Remember, the original build ran a T56 with a McLeod Street Twin. I had better straight motor results with that setup. Just revved it to 5,000+ and dropped the clutch.

The TH400 sucks up a lot of power. With the T56 the drivetrain losses were as low as 12% at 763 flywheel HP. Through the TH400 losses were over 22%.

---

well, we may test that theory. you did 275 thru 2 nozzles, im about to put another in here, im hungry now. i got confused when we talked about the build, i thought the dyno runs were with the turbo 400, thats the sheets i have

Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

@SSlowBoat

The initial build was two stages, which I recall were 125/150. The engine was tuned on the engine dyno for NA, 1 stage, and 2 stages. All three tunes were in the MoTeC in a single file, and available at the flip of the arming switch, plus a press of a button on the shifter. I had results for each of those. Engine was installed with the T56, and all three tunes checked on the chassis dyno. That allowed me to calculate the drivetrain losses for each case.

Two years go by, not many trips to the track, I get tired of missing 3rd gear, I opt for the TH400. There were no significant changes to the tunes since original build. The only change other than the TH400 was going from 3.73 gears to 4.11’s. Now I calculate losses through the TH400 drivetrain. I did get to E’town one Sunday, all by myself. Ran it NA, then a 1-stage pass, and that was an 11.1 @ 127.7 MPH. Decent MPH, but I left on motor, a very soft 1.6X 60-ft, N2O came in maybe 60-ft out, so ET was not good. I thought I saw that time slip in the file folders I gave you, maybe not.

Got tired of cruising almost 4,000 RPM at 70 MPH with street tires, so I installed the Gear Vendors O/D. A bit after that I got greedy, and wanted 800 HP at the flywheel. They added 30 HP, but after the fact told me they had to do it with a single stage, and they could not do it in a single file. So I end up with an NA file and an N2O file, and to switch between them I have to swap files. I would have preferred to know that BEFORE they made the change.

I had them check everything before an event at E'town, and told them to leave the N2O file in the MoTeC. The N2O pull was down 100 HP. Turned out the nitrous bottle valve had gone bad. Swapped for one of their bottles and HP returned. Go to E’town, I line up, nail the throttle and the car ambles down the track on straight motor. They had left the NA tune in the computer, and had not given me the N2O file.

About that time, I lost my job. I was working as a Project Director for the largest engineering/construction company in the world, at their small office in North Branch. The office was heavily into pharmaceuticals and Biotech. Pharma had never recovered from 9/11, and the company that was going to provide $300 million in biotech projects did not get FDA approval for their wonder drug (the one where Martha Stewart went to prison for insider trading). Closed the office. Only choice was transfer to their office in West Virginia or get laid off.

Took me six months to get a job paying 2/3 of what I had been making (who wants to hire someone in their mid-60’s). $$$ for Formula dried up. Two years later I get a better job, but now I'm working 1/2 day on Saturday, no more E’town. Formula becomes a casual driver. Eventually is spends several years in the garage, unstarted, then we push it outside and it sits for two more years, where you found it. When I retired, money became an issue, and I figured at 75+ years old it was time for someone else to enjoy it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Injuneer

@SSlowBoat

The initial build was two stages, which I recall were 125/150. The engine was tuned on the engine dyno for NA, 1 stage, and 2 stages. All three tunes were in the MoTeC in a single file, and available at the flip of the arming switch, plus a press of a button on the shifter. I had results for each of those. Engine was installed with the T56, and all three tunes checked on the chassis dyno. That allowed me to calculate the drivetrain losses for each case.

Two years go by, not many trips to the track, I get tired of missing 3rd gear, I opt for the TH400. There were no significant changes to the tunes since original build. The only change other than the TH400 was going from 3.73 gears to 4.11’s. Now I calculate losses through the TH400 drivetrain. I did get to E’town one Sunday, all by myself. Ran it NA, then a 1-stage pass, and that was an 11.1 @ 127.7 MPH. Decent MPH, but I left on motor, a very soft 1.6X 60-ft, N2O came in maybe 60-ft out, so ET was not good. I thought I saw that time slip in the file folders I gave you, maybe not.

Got tired of cruising almost 4,000 RPM at 70 MPH with street tires, so I installed the Gear Vendors O/D. A bit after that I got greedy, and wanted 800 HP at the flywheel. They added 30 HP, but after the fact told me they had to do it with a single stage, and they could not do it in a single file. So I end up with an NA file and an N2O file, and to switch between them I have to swap files. I would have preferred to know that BEFORE they made the change.

I had them check everything before an event at E'town, and told them to leave the N2O file in the MoTeC. The N2O pull was down 100 HP. Turned out the nitrous bottle valve had gone bad. Swapped for one of their bottles and HP returned. Go to E’town, I line up, nail the throttle and the car ambles down the track on straight motor. They had left the NA tune in the computer, and had not given me the N2O file.

About that time, I lost my job. I was working as a Project Director for the largest engineering/construction company in the world, at their small office in North Branch. The office was heavily into pharmaceuticals and Biotech. Pharma had never recovered from 9/11, and the company that was going to provide $300 million in biotech projects did not get FDA approval for their wonder drug (the one where Martha Stewart went to prison for insider trading). Closed the office. Only choice was transfer to their office in West Virginia or get laid off.

Took me six months to get a job paying 2/3 of what I had been making (who wants to hire someone in their mid-60’s). $$$ for Formula dried up. Two years later I get a better job, but now I'm working 1/2 day on Saturday, no more E’town. Formula becomes a casual driver. Eventually is spends several years in the garage, unstarted, then we push it outside and it sits for two more years, where you found it. When I retired, money became an issue, and I figured at 75+ years old it was time for someone else to enjoy it.

---

im very much enjoying it fred, we are just out here trying to make you proud. i figure getting the tune figured out and a good full bottle with bottle pressure correct i can get a few more tenths out of the 150 horse shot. then go up more and more.

I gotta stay faster than osie @Ltconvert

I've got two more bottles, partially full…….

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Injuneer

I've got two more bottles, partially full…….

---

i need them......lol i knew i shouldve just got them from you a while ago. giggle gas has me HOOKED

I put an NOS 125-shot dry kit on the car less than a year after I bought the car new in California. The NOS kit was legal in CA and had a CARB-EO authorization label. Only requirement was that you had to use the electronic WOT switch included with the kit. I still have the switch if you are interested. Patches into the wiring for the TPS sensor. Was a lot of fun on the street. Turned a 14-second car into a 12-second ride. The outboard fuel pump mounted on the body in front of the rear axle was included in that kit as an inline booster. It's a high pressure Bosch pump that was standard equipment on Porsches. There's another one in the tank.

Did you solve the problem with the lean out in first gear? Was it the heat from the trans/exhaust? One of the things Bill taught me was the problem of sudden reduction of fuel pressure on a hard launch. When you’re pulling 1G, the mass of fuel in the fuel supply line is pressing back against the fuel pump = sudden reduction of pressure exactly when you need max pressure. He showed my a log with with fuel pressures on it, from their 6-second Pro 5.0 Mustang. Pressure dropped on launch. The “cure” was to keep the supply line as small as reasonable to minimize mass of fuel (hence the -6AN line in the Formula), and using a high pressure pump to maintain a 58 PSI supply. His thinking was losing 4 or 5 PSI on a 58 PSI system was a smaller percentage loss in injector flow than losing that much pressure on a 43.5 PSI system.

If you do the math, losing 5 PSI on a 43.5 PSI system, you reduce injector flow by 5.9%. Losing 5 PSI on a 58 PSI system reduces injector flow by 4.4%. Small change but a step in the right direction.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Injuneer

I put an NOS 125-shot dry kit on the car less than a year after I bought the car new in California. The NOS kit was legal in CA and had a CARB-EO authorization label. Only requirement was that you had to use the electronic WOT switch included with the kit. I still have the switch if you are interested. Patches into the wiring for the TPS sensor. Was a lot of fun on the street. Turned a 14-second car into a 12-second ride. The outboard fuel pump mounted on the body in front of the rear axle was included in that kit as an inline booster. It's a high pressure Bosch pump that was standard equipment on Porsches. There's another one in the tank.

Did you solve the problem with the lean out in first gear? Was it the heat from the trans/exhaust? One of the things Bill taught me was the problem of sudden reduction of fuel pressure on a hard launch. When you’re pulling 1G, the mass of fuel in the fuel supply line is pressing back against the fuel pump = sudden reduction of pressure exactly when you need max pressure. He showed my a log with with fuel pressures on it, from their 6-second Pro 5.0 Mustang. Pressure dropped on launch. The “cure” was to keep the supply line as small as reasonable to minimize mass of fuel (hence the -6AN line in the Formula), and using a high pressure pump to maintain a 58 PSI supply. His thinking was losing 4 or 5 PSI on a 58 PSI system was a smaller percentage loss in injector flow than losing that much pressure on a 43.5 PSI system.

If you do the math, losing 5 PSI on a 43.5 PSI system, you reduce injector flow by 5.9%. Losing 5 PSI on a 58 PSI system reduces injector flow by 4.4%. Small change but a step in the right direction.

---

the car became happier with the tune before my dumb ass went and changed a bunch of stuff 2 days after i got in the 11's.

so i am 99.3% sure my mallory 685 is not working correctly, the car is breaking up and almost dying with it on, but if i bypass it and plug the coil back as stock the problem goes away and the car runs better.

guess im creating a nitrous tune file to flash on the sauce. i took the car for a ride, logging, and it was idling like crap and missing randomly no matter what load was on the engine. pulled over, unplugged it, continue driving, car runs better and feels back to normal [emoji2369] blm's looked better too, not sure whats wrong with it. kind of mad because thats 2 forms of nitrous timing retard that have been acting up (LTCC and Mallory) ugh

also changing the power shot solenoid to try to spray more (limited to 150hp) to a nitrous outlet solenoid.

i also vacuum compensated the regulator now and am going to bump the base fuel pressure to 46ish (range is 41-47 per gm) as it goes to 43 wot.



Sent from my SM-S908U using Tapatalk

this was the 10.84 pass on the 1.46 60-ft. 17.5psi in the et street pro's, and it wrinkled them

Attachment 40359

@SSlowBoat

At least the suspension seems to be fairly solid. The car always hooked, no matter what I threw at it. I just want to see some air under the fronts...... :D

PS: Thank you Steve Spohn!