94 t56 wont go into gear

[shippy8907]

I bought this car non running with a fuel issue. This is now fixed and I'm not able to get the car into any gear while driving. It would go in gear just fine while up on jack stands, but wont now that's its on the ground. I've bled and bled this thing and it still has a soft pedal feel. Is there any way the slave or master can fail without a leak because there are no visual leaks?

[tleed]

Did you try to unbolt the slave and pump the slave rod with your hand that was the only way I could bleed mine

[shippy8907]

That's what I did. Probably pumped it a total of 60-70 times. Still a very soft pedal.

[mattgw86]

Have you checked the clutch fork? I've heard of them breaking and I would guess it might cause something like this if it broke...

[tleed]

Have you check the master cylinder rod that connects to the pedal and made sure the clip has not fallen off there wise I would guess the master cylinder is bad if the slave is not leaking

[shippy8907]

I haven't checked the clutch fork or the rod on the master. I'll take a look at both to make sure it isn't either one of those. I was thinking the cylinder was loose in the bore of either the slave or master and not allowing it to build good pressure.

[mattgw86]

The hydraulics are probably the best starting point. I got an entire new assembly pre filled and bled for like $120 or something like that on rock auto.

[shippy8907]

I seen there was a Wagner assembly for about 85 shipped, but it didn't show a picture to see if it includes the hose with it.

[BALLSS]

OP

if you have a soft pedal it is very likely hydraulics. If bleeding did not resolve, just get a complete sealed unit from rockauto.com

when you pulled the slave to pump was the clutch fork centered right?

[shippy8907]

I actually have a new master and slave combo on its way now. Yeah the fork was centered correctly and I made sure the rod set down into the divet on the end.

[BALLSS]

you want the plastic cup on the end of the slave rod

your new unit will come with the slave compressed and straps holding it. Just install the slave that way and when you push the clutch pedal 1st time the straps will break and the slave piston will engage the fork.

[mattgw86]

Wait, you're supposed to leave that attached? I took mine off right before I put it all together...

[BALLSS]

yes...which may be why your pedal is low. You need that plastic cup on the end of the slave piston or you have metal to metal contact to the fork

the plastic straps just break on a new one first time you push clutch pedal.. the cup stays on the slave piston. If you pull your slave later the cup should stay on it

[mattgw86]

Hmm, I didn't think the pedal was all that low, but now that you mention it, I guess it does engage pretty far down. Also, since I know now it's not how it's supposed to be, it's gonna bother me... I suppose I could go buy a cheapo slave and pop the cup off and put it on mine. Just checked the carport/yard and it looks like I tossed it.

[mattgw86]

Well now I feel pretty dumb. My transmission came with the used hydraulics and they're still sitting in a box in my living room. How about that, there's a cup and the broken straps on them. How did I miss that? I guess it'll be ok to pop this one off and put it on my new slave, right?

[miller09]

Yup should work just fine

[SpeedJunkee]

+1 on thinking its slave related

[mattgw86]

Yep, I think the new hydraulics will do the trick. Just don't throw away the plastic bushing like I did...

FWIW, I went for a nice little spirited drive yesterday evening (haven't had much time since the swap) and the clutch felt fine without the little cup in there. I'll still put it together properly because it's bothering me, but it still seems to work ok without it.

[shippy8907]

I've started to try and pull the factory assembly out, and I'm hung up on trying to get that freaking u bolt out. I think the little thin washer thing on the firewall is holding it in there. I can wiggle it around, but it wont pull out. Gonna have to try and cut it with a pair of side cuts later and see if that does the trick. Just an FYI, if your in the market for a master and slave assembly, check on Amazon first. I got the Wagner assembly off there for 28 bucks shipped to my door. I think it might have been a mistake on their part to mark it that low because it was back up to 78 bucks the next day, which is still a good deal since it has free shipping. This unit looks identical to my factory stuff.

[mattgw86]

Wow that's a crazy good deal. I didn't even use the u bolt on my master. Went to Lowe's and picked up some metric socket head bolts and washers. Was much easier to deal with.

[shippy8907]

It looks like it would be impossible to get a bolt on the side farthest towards the drivers side. I had a tough time just grabbing the u bolt comfortably. lol

[mattgw86]

I do have long skinny arms and am pretty good at working in tight, awkward places. I think I may have had the steering column out too.

[shippy8907]

Alright. Well the new master/ slave combo did not make a difference. Still will not go into gear while running. It would go into gear while up on jack stands which is odd. Does this sound like an issue with the throw out bearing or possibly the pressure plate not releasing?

[mattgw86]

It looks like you've eliminated all the really easy stuff unfortunately. Could definitely be the throw out bearing. Would explain the soft pedal too. Only way to really know is to pull the trans now. Luckily it's not too bad. I pulled my 4l60e and put in the T56 by myself on jack stands and ramps.

[shippy8907]

Well i popped the slave out tonight and noticed that the straps didn't break when I pushed the pedal, so I cut those. I also noticed my clutch fork is very loose. I'm assuming that bolt should hold it pretty tight? I'm assuming that's my issue. Once I put the slave back on, the pedal got extremely hard at the bottom. I'm guessing the fork isn't in correctly.

[shippy8907]

32268

[shippy8907]

I found that ^^^ when I took the slave off today. The fork is very very loose and I was able to pull it off the bearing pretty easily. It feels like it should have a little more resistance when I put it up onto the bearing. I'm planning on pulling the trans off the bell housing tonight to see what all I have going on. Also does anyone know what that orange o ring is supposed to be for?

[mattgw86]

Just a guess, but that might actually be the snap ring that holds the throw out bearing in place.

[shippy8907]

That would make sense. I tried to just press on the fork while it was seated in the bearing and it wouldn't even budge the fingers on the pressure plate, so its not doing its job.

[mattgw86]

I'd recommend putting a whole new clutch in. You gotta take it apart anyway...

[BALLSS]

OP

I think you will see quickly when you pull tranny and clutch...T.O. bearing is suspect

Replace pilot bearing also if replacing clutch

[shippy8907]

Well turns out the previous owner thought he would use an o ring as the retainer on the throw out bearing since I'm assuming he had lost the spring clip. It is a brand new clutch, so that is one plus. Does anyone have an extra retainer they could part with? I don't want to spend 25 dollars on eBay for one.

[mattgw86]

Really? Wow, so it was an o ring in there. Kinda wonder what the guy was thinking when he did that... I'm not sure where you could find just a retainer ring. Maybe look for people putting in new clutches or parting T56 cars.

[shippy8907]

Yep. He tried to use that o ring as a retainer. Lol. I might take a look through the for sale section and see if anybody has an extra one.

[Spartan7]

When I last pulled my tranny for a motor swap, I found that clip mangled and sitting in the bellhousing. However, it didn't adversely affect clutch engagement. Really all that clip does is keep the TO bearing from dragging on the clutch disc. I did end up replacing it though, had an extra from an old PP.

Did you find anything else strange in there? How did the fork and its pivot bolt look?

[shippy8907]

That's really the only strange thing we found. The fork and pivot looked pretty good. He had the bolts for the pressure plate torqued down way too tight. I believe they are supposed to be around 22 foot pounds. These were easily triple that. lol. You could see the teeth start going back into the resting position as I was loosening the bolts on it. So that was probably my main issue with it not wanting to disengage.

[mattgw86]

How did the throw out bearing itself look? Was the fork even on it? This is basically how it's all supposed to look with the transmission out. The pressure plate fingers should be pretty much straight. I don't think they would have flexed any more if I had over tightened the bolts, but I only went to the 22 ft/lb and stopped. 32282

[shippy8907]

It looked good also. I think what happened is the previous owner was in the process of putting the clutch in, lost the retainer, and thought it would be okay to use a big o ring doubled over as a retainer. So it literally doesnt even have 1 mile of drive time on it.

[Spartan7]

I would definitely suspect the bolts being too tight as the cause of your issue. Hey, hopefully you don't have to blow money on parts now, aside from that hard-to-find clip.

[shippy8907]

I actually finally sourced a clip. The place is called power torque systems. The guy that runs it is named jim. He mainly sells stuff for corvettes, but luckily the retainer is the same. So if anyone ever needs hard to find clutch parts, look him up. Really nice guy.

[shippy8907]

Update; the car is running and driving as of today. It is throwing a check engine light, has a misfire, and the battery is pretty weak but I'm still counting as a success. Going to try to get it jump started and drive it to my cousins to scan it. I'm suspecting the pressure plate bolts were the problem. Luckly, the throw out bearing isn't making any noise and is functioning normal so far. I appreciate all the responses guys!!