Gette
01-21-2015, 11:29 PM
I did a search and found nothing on the topic here in the forum, so I figured I would share....
I will be honest here, I have not posted much in the last few days, mostly do to my feverish "search for the sequentially shifted manual gearbox"..
OHH I found it... But does not mean I will get it. (yet)
I think, we all are kids at heart and if we see something shinny and new and well cool, we tend to chase it. Well, that is exactly what i have been doing over the last few days.
It is not new, in fact pretty much standard GT1/GT2 issue in most race cars. Also prevalent in rally cars. It has been done in street cars as well albeit, high end builds. I personally never thought to pursue it,, till that damn video of what used to be a mustang driving around downtown LA. You know the one, Ken Block.
If not, it is not a bad 12 mins.. Bad ass driving and allot of smoking tires.....
here is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qanlirrRWs&feature=youtu.be
It features a highly built all wheel drive (Yes all wheel drive) 1965 Mustang notch. (in other words a race car, with a little sheet metal borrowed from a early mustang). The car was built over a 2 year period and features a custom sequentially shifted Sadev AWD setup, centered on a Sadev SC90-24 AWD transaxle... So not all that custom in that respect. Powered by a Downdraft injected Rousch 410ci motor. The cost of which to build, could have bought a new Lamborghini easily....Well it is a bad ass ford,,,,
Well, it inspired a search that lead me to making numerious calls in the US and out to the UK as well as the land down under (Sydney, Australia).
As my car is a road race type of build, the AWD, did intrigue me, But knowing it would never be possible on our platform. the 4th Gen, just does not have the physical space needed to accomplish it (5-gen, 2-gen, 1st-gen maybe, 3rd gen,,,ehh,,,not as tight as a 4th) we would have to move the engine inbound, extend wheel base etc.... would be easier to mount a C5/C6/C7 transaxle..... Even the mustang in the above example, had some changes to motor placement. In short, it was a thought a grin and then let go..
Now, Sequential, now that can be done.....
For those not familiar with sequential manual gearboxes. (this is not an insult to any reader, just clarification as to why i would chase it, for those that do not know) In its simplest form; A manual transmission that shifts up and down like a motorcycle. However, only requires the clutch for start and stop... no clutch is needed to up shift or down shift. There is variations on to this, however in a nutshell it allows for the quickest upshift/downshift possible, faster and more controlled then an automatic... (Yup, I hear the arguments,, but wait for it). It is not common in drag racing either to horsepower limitations or cost. PPG (Pfizer Performance gear) makes a T56 sequential conversion that would handle upwards of 2000HP... So the HP limitations are fading.... Two exact cars side by side, one with (name your automatic) and the other a sequential, and the sequential will win every time. The lack of knowledge and cost is what makes it prohibitive. The above mentioned PPG conversion is $25,000.00. That is complete,(electronics, shifter etc) everything bolts back in the exact same way it did with the original T56. Oh and that cost is using your T56 housing. THAT IS CURRENTLY THE CHEAPEST SOLUTION. MTI Racing out of Texas is the US based dealer/outfitter for the set up. I tried to just get the gears, but he would not let me just have the internal set.
The Sadev (they make one that would replace a T56 in our cars) starts at $30,000.00. They can go up above 50K in a heart beat. there are other manufactures Xtrac, Hollinger Quafe, etc...
Sequentials, can use a traditional shifter on the floor (pull back for up shift, push forward for down shift) or the now "cool" steering wheel paddle shifted. I have skipped over allot of the technology & advantages these beautiful pieces of machinery offer. it can get incredibly tricked out.
Another form of Sequential (not really though) is known as the dogbox, It can be upshifted with out using a clutch, but requires use of the clutch on downshifts. Most Dogboxes still use the familiar H shift pattern. You can get some that are ratchet shifted... but might as well go full bore sequential at that point. Typical Dogbox (plate gear) setups are cheaper, around 9K. BUT Note: purpose built Sequential gearboxes do use Dog gears... so they do share allot of the same ideas.
So why would I bring up a topic, that, well is way beyond the scope of 99.9% of those who would read it? Hell, most of us do not even have that much in the whole car. (I do not have that much in mine, ,,, yet)
I think it is always a good thing to reach high and see what you find, never know when something becomes available or when it may be applicable. I am in direct contact with PPG in Australia... never know what the future may bring.....
yup, you know it.... let the arguments, comments commence! :drool:
I will be honest here, I have not posted much in the last few days, mostly do to my feverish "search for the sequentially shifted manual gearbox"..
OHH I found it... But does not mean I will get it. (yet)
I think, we all are kids at heart and if we see something shinny and new and well cool, we tend to chase it. Well, that is exactly what i have been doing over the last few days.
It is not new, in fact pretty much standard GT1/GT2 issue in most race cars. Also prevalent in rally cars. It has been done in street cars as well albeit, high end builds. I personally never thought to pursue it,, till that damn video of what used to be a mustang driving around downtown LA. You know the one, Ken Block.
If not, it is not a bad 12 mins.. Bad ass driving and allot of smoking tires.....
here is the link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5qanlirrRWs&feature=youtu.be
It features a highly built all wheel drive (Yes all wheel drive) 1965 Mustang notch. (in other words a race car, with a little sheet metal borrowed from a early mustang). The car was built over a 2 year period and features a custom sequentially shifted Sadev AWD setup, centered on a Sadev SC90-24 AWD transaxle... So not all that custom in that respect. Powered by a Downdraft injected Rousch 410ci motor. The cost of which to build, could have bought a new Lamborghini easily....Well it is a bad ass ford,,,,
Well, it inspired a search that lead me to making numerious calls in the US and out to the UK as well as the land down under (Sydney, Australia).
As my car is a road race type of build, the AWD, did intrigue me, But knowing it would never be possible on our platform. the 4th Gen, just does not have the physical space needed to accomplish it (5-gen, 2-gen, 1st-gen maybe, 3rd gen,,,ehh,,,not as tight as a 4th) we would have to move the engine inbound, extend wheel base etc.... would be easier to mount a C5/C6/C7 transaxle..... Even the mustang in the above example, had some changes to motor placement. In short, it was a thought a grin and then let go..
Now, Sequential, now that can be done.....
For those not familiar with sequential manual gearboxes. (this is not an insult to any reader, just clarification as to why i would chase it, for those that do not know) In its simplest form; A manual transmission that shifts up and down like a motorcycle. However, only requires the clutch for start and stop... no clutch is needed to up shift or down shift. There is variations on to this, however in a nutshell it allows for the quickest upshift/downshift possible, faster and more controlled then an automatic... (Yup, I hear the arguments,, but wait for it). It is not common in drag racing either to horsepower limitations or cost. PPG (Pfizer Performance gear) makes a T56 sequential conversion that would handle upwards of 2000HP... So the HP limitations are fading.... Two exact cars side by side, one with (name your automatic) and the other a sequential, and the sequential will win every time. The lack of knowledge and cost is what makes it prohibitive. The above mentioned PPG conversion is $25,000.00. That is complete,(electronics, shifter etc) everything bolts back in the exact same way it did with the original T56. Oh and that cost is using your T56 housing. THAT IS CURRENTLY THE CHEAPEST SOLUTION. MTI Racing out of Texas is the US based dealer/outfitter for the set up. I tried to just get the gears, but he would not let me just have the internal set.
The Sadev (they make one that would replace a T56 in our cars) starts at $30,000.00. They can go up above 50K in a heart beat. there are other manufactures Xtrac, Hollinger Quafe, etc...
Sequentials, can use a traditional shifter on the floor (pull back for up shift, push forward for down shift) or the now "cool" steering wheel paddle shifted. I have skipped over allot of the technology & advantages these beautiful pieces of machinery offer. it can get incredibly tricked out.
Another form of Sequential (not really though) is known as the dogbox, It can be upshifted with out using a clutch, but requires use of the clutch on downshifts. Most Dogboxes still use the familiar H shift pattern. You can get some that are ratchet shifted... but might as well go full bore sequential at that point. Typical Dogbox (plate gear) setups are cheaper, around 9K. BUT Note: purpose built Sequential gearboxes do use Dog gears... so they do share allot of the same ideas.
So why would I bring up a topic, that, well is way beyond the scope of 99.9% of those who would read it? Hell, most of us do not even have that much in the whole car. (I do not have that much in mine, ,,, yet)
I think it is always a good thing to reach high and see what you find, never know when something becomes available or when it may be applicable. I am in direct contact with PPG in Australia... never know what the future may bring.....
yup, you know it.... let the arguments, comments commence! :drool: