Best Clutch Options?

[bRock]

Guys, I'm looking for some quick ideas on the
best clutch options for my 97 Camaro. Doin a search right now, but I need to come up with the right item quick to get her back on the road. The clutch came apart the other day from a 1-2 shift; I didn't get on it hard enough for that to happen...so I thought! [emoji25]

It's my DD, 383 stroker, probably making around 400 HP/TQ tops (haven't dyno'ed her yet)

Thanks for the input!

[popo8]

I run a centerforce dual friction in my camaro. Been in there since the stock motor (2007ish). now its behind a boosted 383... dont wanna jinx myself but its been great.

Whatever u do...talk to our sponsors that are parts vendors in the sales section. They take great care of our members...with a personal touch.

[Wilburbeest]

I've had excellent luck with RAM. I know in the past their LS1 clutches have been questionable, but I've never heard anything bad about the LT1 pieces. For your power/torque the Powergrip HD would be a good fit. It's a full disk as well so it's got a smooth engagement for how aggressive it is, and both sides are sintered iron metallic so it doesn't need to be broken in. I've run the standard Powergrip (one side semi-metallic, one side sintered iron) with bolt-ons since 2007. The first one lasted about 40k with a ton of drag passes and I'm hoping this one will last a while with H/C. Would have gone with the HD for myself if I had known I was gonna blow a head gasket right after it went in and do some motor work.

[bRock]

Sounds good guys, thanks. I'll look into those. I was already looking at RAM clutch options
popo8 you're making around ~ 650 HP right, would that same clutch be too grippy for my application?

[popo8]

602 to the wheels

[popo8]

Like i was saying... i installed this clutch when the stock motor was in the car... ive dd'd the car .... road trips annually... from stock to where it is now.

[bRock]

Like i was saying... i installed this clutch when the stock motor was in the car... ive dd'd the car .... road trips annually... from stock to where it is now.
Oh, missed that. I gotcha. I was just looking at it. I'll check out the sponsors too, get input from them. I should have had a lot of life left in mine, even though it was stock. My trans guy said it still had a lot of meat left, it just flew apart!
Better than a trans rebuild, though! That's what I was worried it was lol

[96LT1355Z28]

The Centerforce DF is a nice clutch I ran it for several years without any issues. The only issue with it now is the price has gone through the roof! My only experience with Ram was using a Powergrip HD (puck style), and I wasn't a fan. At the time the car was a DD and I wouldn't recommend it. to be fair that clutch wasn't designed to be a DD clutch. I've also had good luck with the Zoom HP series clutch, it's kevlar so it's got a very specific break in procedure but once done it'll last forever. Currently I'm using a Spec 3+ and love it. It's also $ but Spec makes several stages of clutches that might better suit your car and budget. Let me know what your intentions are for the car and I'd be happy to price out some options for you.

[popo8]

Oh, missed that. I gotcha. I was just looking at it. I'll check out the sponsors too, get input from them. I should have had a lot of life left in mine, even though it was stock. My trans guy said it still had a lot of meat left, it just flew apart!
Better than a trans rebuild, though! That's what I was worried it was lol

I actually seperated my stock one (center from the outter) when I had to replace it... again, behind the STOCK motor. lol

[bRock]

The Centerforce DF is a nice clutch I ran it for several years without any issues. The only issue with it now is the price has gone through the roof! My only experience with Ram was using a Powergrip HD (puck style), and I wasn't a fan. At the time the car was a DD and I wouldn't recommend it. to be fair that clutch wasn't designed to be a DD clutch. I've also had good luck with the Zoom HP series clutch, it's kevlar so it's got a very specific break in procedure but once done it'll last forever. Currently I'm using a Spec 3+ and love it. It's also $ but Spec makes several stages of clutches that might better suit your car and budget. Let me know what your intentions are for the car and I'd be happy to price out some options for you.

Thanks for the info. The centerforce DF sounds like it would be a good daily. With the RAM clutches, it sounds like the Powergrip (not HD) would suit me better, or maybe even the HDX. The HD sounds like it may sacrifice driveability. I'll check out Zoom and Spec. But yeah, $700 for a clutch kit sucks! Lol

[bRock]

I actually seperated my stock one (center from the outter) when I had to replace it... again, behind the STOCK motor. lol

That may be what happened to mine. I haven't seen it yet.

[popo8]

That may be what happened to mine. I haven't seen it yet.
Well make sure to show us pics....

[bRock]

Definitely will!

[hokeplaya05]

i have heard good things about the mcleod RXT clutch as well, that is what i will be going with when i replace my current setup (stage 3 ebay special installed by the PO).

[HellTeeOne]

No one has mentioned the Mcleod Street Twin?

Best all-around high performance clutch for these cars, bar none. It's pricey, but it includes a flywheel and it's rebuildable. And it has a great service record with none of the complaints about chattering, jerky engagement, or outright failure I've heard or experienced with almost all the others, including the SPECs.

I've heard good things about the RAM Powergrip clutches, too. But never seen one being run in a big power (>600rwhp) application.

[Wilburbeest]

Thanks for the info. The centerforce DF sounds like it would be a good daily. With the RAM clutches, it sounds like the Powergrip (not HD) would suit me better, or maybe even the HDX. The HD sounds like it may sacrifice driveability. I'll check out Zoom and Spec. But yeah, $700 for a clutch kit sucks! Lol

You're right, the Powergrip HD is rough and chatters a lot IF you don't have steep enough gears/enough torque for how aggressive it is. If you have gears or enough low end torque, then it's fine. Just depends on the application. But of course, everybody has a different opinion of what's acceptable on the street, so YMMV.

[tleed]

McLeod street twin has my vote I love mine and the pedal is like butter think I paid 1500 but included steel flywheel and clutch mater cylinder

[popo8]

The Centerforce DF is a nice clutch I ran it for several years without any issues. The only issue with it now is the price has gone through the roof! ...

What are they goin for now. Its been a long time since i got mine but i wanna say i paid 5 or 6 hundred for everything. I may be wrong but i thought it was expensive back THEN.

[96LT1355Z28]

About $1K!

[popo8]

About $1K!
Wow... u were not kidding it went up!!!

[Spartan7]

I used to have a RAM HDX, and now have a Powergrip. The HDX held up ok to my H/C, until it broke a hub spring from me beating on it. The Powergrip is definitely better than it. It slips great for street and parking lot driving, with hardly any chatter (I usually don't rev it up much to get going and it will only chatter if I slip it too fast). It grabs great when I want to slam through the gears, but mine isn't a track car, so I can't comment on that. One thing I liked about the RAM clutches were that they used Valeo pressure plates, although I'm not sure how true that still is. I bought this one probably 5 years ago and have not been especially nice to it. I'd buy it again, it suits my setup perfectly.

[LT slow]

I've heard noting but good things about competition clutch. That's what I'm getting here soon.

[bRock]

Went with the Spec Stage 2. I'll update on how it drives. Gonna be a few weeks though! 10 days per Spec just to build it

[Wilburbeest]

I've heard noting but good things about competition clutch. That's what I'm getting here soon.

I got their Stage 3 before I sent it back for another RAM. The pressure plate wanted to grind on the clutch fork. Spent about 3 weeks on and off screwing with it and thinking I was doing something stupid or missing another issue. Yes, I'm sure I was sent the right parts.

[mikey4play]

I've heard noting but good things about competition clutch. That's what I'm getting here soon. Just got the stage 5 for my build.

[BALLSS]

No one has mentioned the Mcleod Street Twin?

Best all-around high performance clutch for these cars, bar none. It's pricey, but it includes a flywheel and it's rebuildable. And it has a great service record with none of the complaints about chattering, jerky engagement, or outright failure I've heard or experienced with almost all the others, including the SPECs.

I've heard good things about the RAM Powergrip clutches, too. But never seen one being run in a big power (>600rwhp) application.

^^^^, FWIW I now run the McLeod Street Twin. Bought it at JEGS for $1250 for the clutch, FW & larger MC as a kit

I don't make huge HP but do have a heavy 4200+ lb car with around 400 HP and more TQ to the wheels.

I have run stock Valeo, SPEC 2+, Zoom Kevlar, Competition 2500 and while they all "initially" held ok with my 383...they all died. some more dramatically than others. yes 1/4 mi use has its costs but IMHO if I had gone with the McLeod twin initially I would be $ ahead....and fewer clutch swaps...YMMV

The street maner trade off with more aggressive disc materials, especially puc style discs, is a real factor. I did manage to find the "sweet spot" on engagement on most of my previous single disc clutches but if I went outside that narrow band on engagement..chatter

[bRock]

I got their Stage 3 before I sent it back for another RAM. The pressure plate wanted to grind on the clutch fork. Spent about 3 weeks on and off screwing with it and thinking I was doing something stupid or missing another issue. Yes, I'm sure I was sent the right parts.
I've been having that problem with my stock setup. I just don't push the pedal in all the way and don't let anyone else drive it. Can't figure out why.

[Wilburbeest]

I've been having that problem with my stock setup. I just don't push the pedal in all the way and don't let anyone else drive it. Can't figure out why.

Now that's odd. That sounds to me like your clutch fork pivot bolt is backing off. Seriously though, I went through EVERYTHING, and even got one of the guys from a good speed shop near my house to come look at it with me. This was the pressure plate, with zero question. Everything cleared fine with both (new and old) Valeo LT4 plates from RAM, as well as an old stock one I had laying around. I even went so far as to try all three plates with both the competition clutch disk and my old one. Made double damn sure the clutch fork was on each time too and had my nephew work the clutch while I watched it disengage. I also tried putting it together with the RAM throw out bearing and the Competition clutch pressure plate since the two were slightly different. Still a no go, but the Competition bearing was fine in the new RAM plate. It might have worked if I ground the T-fitting that the fork pivots on, but at that point I questioned what else they goofed up on the clutch and didn't want it in my car anymore. Mine may be and probably was an anomaly, because I heard good things too, but I'm not too excited about trying anything else from them after my experience.

[BALLSS]

fork buzzing the PP would likely be the fork is over extending. Don't know if F-body pedal has this but I have a "stop" bolt you can adjust to set bottom pedal travel. My pedal assembly is custom made for my B-body application.

Now with my McLeod Street Twin, which also has a 13/16' Wilwood MC, the issue I had is when adjusting the MC rod length to get enough travel to disengage I experienced the fork then hitting the PP (twin disc clutch stack height is higher than a single disc clutch) I called McLeod and they said to cut off "a washer thickness" from fork mounting "T" (which would pull the fork further away from PP). That resolved my "buzzing" issue

But on a single disc clutch, even with the "clone" LT4 PP all the clutch companies use you should not have to cut the "T"

[Wilburbeest]

If that's all that was wrong (pedal adjustment) my case with the CC stage 3 I would/do feel incredibly silly and I'll have to check for that on my car. This wasn't lightly buzzing though. The clutch was a decent amount off the floor when it started grinding.

[bRock]

fork buzzing the PP would likely be the fork is over extending. Don't know if F-body pedal has this but I have a "stop" bolt you can adjust to set bottom pedal travel. My pedal assembly is custom made for my B-body application.

Well, clutch install complete last week. Been driving it and no more clutch grinding PP issues. Something about the other PP. It was a stock replacement, I don't know what the deal was.

Anyway, like I said, went with the Spec Stage 2 and it drives great. Real mild mannered, great for daily use. I can tell its a little more aggressive b/c of a little chatter at low rpm's, but that should mostly vanish when it's broken in.

[bRock]

Ans big thanks to 96LT1355Z28 for all the help!

[96LT1355Z28]

Not a problem, glad your happy with it. Please post how it's doing in a few months once it's broken in.

[Fastbird]

DEFINITELY break in the Spec clutch properly. I think you'll wear through the Spec 2 a little quick if you're at 400/400 though depending on how hard you are on it. The 2+ or 3 probably would have been a little better for longevity sake. I used to run a 2+ before going boosted and Street Twin, and it was phenomenal, but you MUST break them in properly. SO many spec clutches have "Failed" and gotten bad reviews due to poor installation and improper break in.

[bRock]

DEFINITELY break in the Spec clutch properly. I think you'll wear through the Spec 2 a little quick if you're at 400/400 though depending on how hard you are on it. The 2+ or 3 probably would have been a little better for longevity sake. I used to run a 2+ before going boosted and Street Twin, and it was phenomenal, but you MUST break them in properly. SO many spec clutches have "Failed" and gotten bad reviews due to poor installation and improper break in.
I'm making sure I break it in good. I put a lot of highway miles on the Z, so I'm probably gonna double the break-in period, just to make sure. The 400 HP mark is SOTP dyno. I know I'm not making more than that for sure, but it's probably more like 360-380, maybe as much as 400 TQ. I have a buddy who road races his vette (C5), and he's running the 2+ and dyno'ed at ~350 ponies; so that one would probably work fine for daily use.

[bRock]

BTW, here's what happened to my old, stock clutch. Separated the center section from the outer.

[Not Dave]

bRock, glad you got your clutch in quickly and are liking it. Spec 2 I believe is what you settled on.

My stock clutch is going out and needs replacement so glad I stumbled on this thread. My engine is stock save for muffler (Hooker AeroChamber) and CAI (K&N). I'm looking at RAM Muscle Car or HDX, was also looking at Spec Stage 1, maybe Stage 2. Mine is a weekend driver, mostly mild driving but some spirited runs here and there. No drag racing, drifting or auto crossing. I need to pull the trigger soon. Also would resurfacing the stock iron flywheel be fine vs getting a steel flywheel? Steel is slightly lighter so less rotational mass I believe but would it make a difference on a stock motor? The funds for anything over $500 just isn't there for a clutch so no McLoed or Centerforce. Just can't do the AutoZone one either.

[96LT1355Z28]

Not Dave, reusing your stock FW is fine as long as it's not damaged. Definitely get it resurfaced, most transmission/machine shops can do it for about $50.00. It's not recommended to reuse the stock TTY PP bolts but several people have done it without any issues. ARP makes a set for the LT1, part #134-2202 or you can match your stock ones the with new bolts from the local hardware store (what I did). I think a Spec stage 1 would be great for your setup, the stage 2 will work but your buying more holding capacity and paying for more expensive friction material that you don't need. I'd be happy to quote you a price on any Spec clutch. I'm not a dealer for Competition Clutch and have never used any of their products but, they're a budget minded clutch that several people are happy with. The only Ram clutch I've used is the Powergrip HD which is not the right clutch for you! Never sold or had any experience with the Ram Muscle car or HDX. Only thing I can say about them is the Muscle car looks like an OEM replacement and with the HDX your paying for the SFI certification (doesn't mean much for you if your not drag racing). Let me know if you have any questions, I'm happy to help!

[Not Dave]

Thanks for the info. The more I've read the more it makes sense to use the stock flywheel (resurfaced) or replace it with another stock one. There's a lot of options out there including Clutchnet.com and now I just found a Comp Clutch stage 1 kit for $299 shipped. I have some more research to do. There's a good shop about 30 miles away that I'd trust to do excellent work though kind of pricey but has a warranty. Just don't think I have the right stuff to do it myself without help. I will give the shop a call and see what they also recommend. I'd like to get the clutch I want and have them install it. Like you said it seems a stage 1 is what I need, anything else is overkill.

[Spartan7]

It's not recommended to reuse the stock TTY PP bolts but several people have done it without any issues.

I've seen this mentioned a few times in recent years. Do you have any proof the flywheel bolts are TTY? The service manual makes no mention of it, which is where you'd expect to find that info.

[Not Dave]

I've never heard of TTY bolts so looked it up. My car now has 142,000 miles on it, am going to venture a guess that the clutch in there now is not the original 18 year old clutch. Who knows what hardware is in there until it's taken apart. Most of the time I replace things on this car because I want to know it has quality parts on it like one of the first things I did after getting it was change the fuel filter, never know how old the previous one was. Getting ARP bolts in there would keep my mind sound.

I have yet to order a clutch kit. I did send an email to the shop yesterday afternoon, waiting to hear back what they recommend. After much reading I'm now leaning toward the Competition Clutch Stage 1 4134-2400 (http://competitionclutch.com/csindex.php?vn=stage-1-info). CC's get many good reviews, more than others it seems.

[96LT1355Z28]

Maybe the incorrect wording on my part. My Haynes manual says PP to FW bolts are 15ftlbs +30*, in my mind that's like a TTY.

[Spartan7]

Well first off, I'd going to say I'm not a fan of the Haynes manuals. I have one too, and it is seriously lacking. GM specifies 74 ft-lb for the flywheel bolts, no mention of torque angle. IIRC, nothing on an LT1 engine is TTY. Even though the head bolts are final torqued to angle in the manual, it goes as far as to mention marking which position they were removed from for future re-installation. That's opposed to LS head bolts, with are also torqued to angle, but they can't be reused (which the manual points out clearly).

I wouldn't reuse the head bolts myself, because it's cheap insurance. If you want to replace the flywheel bolts that's totally up to you too. I have ARP myself. It's just not required. Hope that clears some things up.

[96LT1355Z28]

I'm talking about the pressure plate to flywheel bolts, not flywheel to crank. Your correct on the FW, 74 ftlbs.

[Not Dave]

I ended up getting the stage 1 from Competition Clutch. Had to get a new flywheel also. A local shop put it in and it's vastly different from the stock clutch (which lasted 142,000 miles apparently). This one grabs solid though the clutch pedal is softer and the clutch grabs instantly. It's taking some getting used to, have only driven it about 50 miles so far.

[Spartan7]

I'm talking about the pressure plate to flywheel bolts, not flywheel to crank. Your correct on the FW, 74 ftlbs.

Ah, must have missed that part. Anyway, I think you misread that. The 5 speed spec is 15 ft-lb + 45*. 6 speed is 22 ft-lb only. Again, no mention of replacing. Even then, AFAIK our PP bolts have been discontinued. They are a special bolt with a long shoulder and last time I checked ARP did not make them for us. I would think twice before tossing them.

[96LT1355Z28]

ARP makes them now, #134-2202

[superspirit]

I bought some grade 8 bolts at the local hardware store. cheaper than ARP and they work just fine. now if I could find a throwout bearing that didnt cost an arm and 2 legs I could move on with another project.

[96LT1355Z28]

Spec has a nice HD one for $85.99.

[Spartan7]

ARP makes them now, #134-2202

Oh awesome, that'll be on the list for the next time the tranny comes off. :D

[CamaroGirl]

I bought some grade 8 bolts at the local hardware store. cheaper than ARP and they work just fine. now if I could find a throwout bearing that didnt cost an arm and 2 legs I could move on with another project.

Holy shit those things really went up in price since the last time I had to get one...whoa. I remember when the collar on mine went with the 1 year old Centerforce clutch it was $80...