Budget Paddle Shifter idea

[Ghettogmc23]

Hello everyone,
haven't been on the forum for a while but have been busy doing some research. I have been finalizing some minor details on a paddle shifter system that I am going to be running in my truck and thought if anyone on here was interested i would share my idea. My total for this project at the moment is currently only $150 and although it may not be a perfect design like TCI or the Shrifter it will work good for those on a budget and wanting a little better control, plus it's about the same cost as a ratchet shifter so might be a bigger hit than I expect lol. So if anyone is interested I'll be laying out the details in this thread whenever I have the time and resources.
Thanks.

[popo8]

Looking very forward to seeing ur design man.

LTXtech.com is my drug.

[Ghettogmc23]

I'd like to give a little background on this project so it has a bit more depth to it.
Back in 2011 my dad got a good deal on a 1991 Dodge Stealth that was in good shape except for one issue: the transmission had issues shifting. After doing some researching online we found that a common issue was for the tcu to go bad and one solution is to wire toggle switches to the solenoids and use them to control it both as a diagnostic (to check if its the tcu or trans) and as a performance mod. When we did this we drove it around to confirm it worked and found that while shifting it like this we could get it to chirp the tires on the 1-2 shift. A little after this we bought a tux and sold the car for a decent profit.
Fast forward to 2012. I recently installed the supercharger to my truck and was setting it up for autocross. Then it came to me. My truck has a 4L60E so maybe I can do the rifle switch mod to my truck for a bit more if a performance shift. So I post to a forum online explaining my experience with the stealth and my desire to do this with my Jimmy. Unfortunately the only response I got said this was impossible on a GM transmission. The only options I could find were the setups such as TCI has and I wasnt willing to pay $1100 for paddle shifters and an aftermarket tcu. So I gave up on it.
Fast forward again to New Years. The local Take A Part was having a 50% off sale so I went to get a 4L60E to upgrade my truck. When I went there I found a truck with the motor pulled out. 6 bolts and $75 later it was mine. So now that I was preparing to do the swap I decided to go ahead and add a few things to it. Again the paddle shift idea came up and this time I was determined to figure it out. So I started researching and still couldn't find any info as to how to do it. Then I found a wiring diagram for the 4L60E where someone else had wanted to do the toggle switch mod. This got me thinking that maybe I should just do that and be happy. Problem with the toggle switches is they get confused if your not watching them and a 4-1 shift on a freshly built motor would do more than ruin my day lol. So I started looking for a fail safe design. Only option I found was a switch like a heater knob that rotated to different positions. This seemed ok but didn't do much to solve the issue of taking your hands off the wheel.
So then I had the idea that since I'm not finding any info anywhere on the 4l60e maybe I should start back at the source. So I started searching the stealth forums which eventually transferred me to the 3000GT forums which ended up transferring me to a DSM forum. Once I was on there I found my answer. Instead of two toggle switches a member had designed a box with simple up/down buttons to control the solenoids. Bullet proof since it can't do the 4-1 shift, if power is losses it defaults to 3rd gear, and the best part if you can wire in external buttons such as on the steering wheel. So with the wiring diagram for the solenoids and this shift control box I was on the fast track to having a paddle shifter setup. One problem: buttons aren't paddles.

[Ghettogmc23]

So now I'll get to the point. With this box you can switch from the computer controlling the trans and with a toggle switch can put the power to the buttons which is nice because this means no standalone tcu. So that's a decent $3-400 savings on the project. Now the issue is the paddle shifter itself. Cheapest I could find was $350 and couldn't get a diagram if how it's wired. Little bit expensive to not even know if it'll wire up.
So then I started thinking. What if I kept the buttons but mounted them differently?
With my truck I have a Grant steering wheel adapter, splined inside with a three bolt pattern for the wheel. On top of that I have a 3 to 6 bolt adapter for my aftermarket steering wheel which is about 2" long. My idea is as simple as this. Cut to slots in the sides if the adapter, mount two buttons inside the adapter inside each cut, and then install a lever that has a pin to pivot on in the adapter. So it extends to the same diameter of the wheel but still keeps the buttons for the up/down shift inside of the hub. No wires to be seen and the paddles are still pulled towards the wheel to be activated. It's a bit of a primitive design and will be a tight fit but overall I'll have about $50 invested rather than the $350 they want to buy the setup.
So just a recap this design is overall about $150 and the best part is you can keep the pcm your running without having a standalone system. Now here's the main drawback. With the shift box in control of the transmission the shift line pressure is defaulted to maximum. The reason the stealth would chirp the tires with the switches is because the line pressure was maxed out at all shifts no matter what the conditions. I've been told it won't hurt anything in the trans but seems like it would eventually have some side-effects and would appreciate a trans expert to shed some light on this more if they could.
So there it is. A budget paddle shift setup that uses a simple shift box and a home built paddle shifter setup. Plus with a price of around $150 it opens it up to many more budgets than the expensive ones. Plus maybe a fabricator would be willing to take this idea and make a decent design of it to sell to those who don't have the equipment or experience to do it.
I'll add more info and updates as I get the trans swap done and install the setup.


Roadsurge box
http://www.roadsurge.com/viewproduct.php?id=1


ForcedFour box
http://forcedfour.com/shiftboxbasic.htm

[CPT]

26624
The "break out box" we use for diagnostic purposes uses the same basic idea, except it has a rotary knob to shift gears. 4L60Es use a semply shift solenoid strategy. The transmission connector gets a constant 12V signal to the "E" pin in the case connector. The "E" wire splits in the trans to send HOT to both shift solenoids. The computer then sends a ground or combination of grounds to energize the shift solenoids through the "A" and "B" pins in the case connector. Grounding both the "A" and "B" pins is 1st gear. Grounding just the "B" pin is 2nd gear. No ground is 3rd. Grounding just the "A" pin in 4th gear.
You don't need a "break out box" to accomplish this. You can simply tap into the "A" and "B" wires and ground them accordingly to cycle the solenoids.


1st ON ON
2nd OFF ON
3rd OFF OFF
4th ON OFF

[Ghettogmc23]

Thanks Cahall, I'm happy to see it has been done and is possible since when I first looked it up I was told GM transmissions weren't designed that way.
I know the box isn't necessary to check the solenoid function, but it will be used with paddle shifters so it can be a permanent install for hands-free shifting, not for diagnostics. I might have been a little unclear on that since that's what it started as lol.
this is the overall idea of it and where the idea came from
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-parts-feedback-reviews/300424-roadsurge-manual-shift-box-automatic-dsms-freakin-sweet.html

btw I've been reading a lot of info on the 4l60e recently since it's a 2000 trans and I'm using a 94 pcm so double checking a lot of info and your posts come up everywhere on it lol so definitely happy to see you posting on this.

[Ghettogmc23]

Received my shift box the other day so I dug out my wiring harness for the transmission. Going to put it in the truck tomorrow and lay out the wiring and while I'm in there route my transmission temp gauge through. Plus pulled the steering wheel and hub off to get some measurements to design the paddle shifters.


also had an idea. For a drag racing application to get perfect shifts each run maybe the upshift wire could be tied into the wire for the shift light on an aftermarket tach, so as soon as the light comes on it gives signal for the next gear. Give consistent shifts each run and then just flip the box off and put control back to the pcm so it'll shift part throttle.

[Ghettogmc23]

So after doing some looking I ran across this setup that I think I'll try before I actually start cutting my hub and making my own system.
http://granturgismo.com/buypaddles.html
i know it's not for a real car but the design looks exactly like what I need and for the price it sure beats the real setups! Plus all it's needed for is the actual buttons not any if the computer controls like the aftermarkets setups have in the paddles. I went ahead and ordered them and when they show up I'll get some ideas but looks like they could be bolted right to the hub and just wired up to the shift box external outputs. Best part is it's still gonna keep my cost under $150 so fingers crossed! I'll update when there's more.

[Ghettogmc23]

So a little update. Ordered a steering wheel with the optional buttons on it so I could use that for my first setup, also ordered the paddle shifters for the gran Turismo wheel so I could start using that on my next design. I was also looking online for more ideas after I ran the wiring for my buttons through the column and wasn't too excited about the idea of having wires twist when I turn. It'll work cuz they have a ton of slack but eventually I suspect they'll break. So I found a thread on lamboclone.com where a guy took a universal keyless entry kit and tapped into the lock/ unlock buttons of the remote and put it in the hub. Then he wired the receiver to the shift solenoids rather than the door locks. Removes all wiring from the column and is only $20. So I kinda scrapped my idea and now I'm just kinda collaborating these two lol. The shift box with the wireless controls. Can't post pics on my phone but once I get on my laptop I'll post everything up to this point that I have

Lamboclone thread
http://lamboclone.com/index.php?topic=745.0

[Ghettogmc23]

Couple pics of the wiring diagram to go with the wiring Cahall posted, pic of my shift box I got, paddle shifters, and the twin button steering wheel I got until the paddles are finished. Currently waiting for my remote keyless entry to arrive so I can install it and then I just need to swap the transmission out.

26739
26741
26742
26743

[Ghettogmc23]

How the paddles will install. Kinda far away but just a mockup

26745

[Ghettogmc23]

Took the keyless entry remote, pulled the cover n buttons off for bare circuit board, soldered a wire to each side of the buttons, and then soldered the wires into the paddle buttons. The steering side of the paddle shifters are almost complete, just need to mount them to the wheel and bolt the wheel back on. More to come soon.


http://youtu.be/zFwXp3L7-TM

[Ghettogmc23]

Paddles mounted and all finished. Ready to install. Gonna be soldering and wiring the receiver/ shift box combo tonite after work so I can have the setup done and ready to install for my birthday. I'll have the wiring for that afterwards for anyone interested

26790

[Blackbird96WS6]

Looks good, man! This is pretty cool, I hope it all comes together like you've planned, this would make an auto car at a road course much more fun.

[Ghettogmc23]

Thanks! So far only issue I can see is the steering wheel will need to be aligned at all times lol. Other than that it's goin smoothly and for my entire setup it's still under $160 total and keeps the stock computer unlike some other kits that use an aftermarket one. So that's a big plus for anyone on a budget and wanting to have some fun. Plus it's universal for just about any car lol

[popo8]

Im in awe that you are making this happen. Alot of reading, but very interesting...

Still following!

[Ghettogmc23]

Thanks Popo. I thought maybe when it was done someone could do a shorter write up of it or something so anyone interested wouldn't have to read thru all the little updates lol.

So hit a small roadblock on it today that I kind of regret not noticing earlier.
I wires everything up to a battery to check that it would all work and wired two license plate lights up to substitute the solenoids. Everything works as far as the shift box and the paddles were working until I realized I could only get 3rd and 4th with them. That's when I realized that the keyless entry would only activate a full cycle meaning once it was unlocked it wouldn't unlock again until it was locked. So I messed with it a bit and got it to go thru all four gears but it did it simultaneously because it was trying to complete the circuit. So I kept trying to figure out a solution and then the receiver sparked and started smoking and stopped working lol. So I decided to go to bed and think about it in the morning and when I woke up I had another idea.
Rather than a keyless entry which has to complete a cycle my next attempt is going to be a remote for a winch. Since it only has an IN and OUT button it will be a bit simpler to work with and I know that this remote should be able to activate the buttons more than once in a row unlike the keyless entry. Down side is its $22 over $15 so the cost goes up another $7. Coulda bought from China for $10 but didn't wanna wait forever for it. At least this time I'll be smart enough to wire it up and test it before I solder everything up. This one doesn't include a spare remote either but that's not a deal breaker. More updates once the new winch controller arrives.

[Ghettogmc23]

Ok so the paddle shifter officially works! I purchased the winch remote and it arrived today. The remote was so tiny it was almost impossible to solder everything lol. That and I had some issues.
Ok so the winch remote allows me to shift thru all the gears and works very quickly HOWEVER it uses a + signal and the shift box requires a - signal. So to solve this issue there has to be a relay inline of each wire for the paddles ,one for upshift and one for downshift. Not a huge issue but makes the system a bit more complex than I was hoping. The only issue I currently have now with the system is during shifting the lights I used to act as the solenoids flash when shifting which wouldn't be an issue except that that means there is a chance the transmission could shift into first for a split second. I'm hoping the issue goes away once everything is hard wired and soldered. It's all currently just taped together and so some wires are a bit loose. Now that the setup is pretty much done I guess I'll get to work on a step by step write up to simplify everything for anyone wanting to do this.


http://youtu.be/NjNstTh2SVY

[Chris]

Props for spending the time on this! Ill be reading into it, only thing I wonder is the shift time between the solenoids that their might be a flare between shifts?

[popo8]

Whats ur background that allows u to know all this stuff man. Im lost and amazed with so much of it.

LTXtech.com is my drug.

[Ghettogmc23]

I'm not sure about flares. I know the box automatically commands full line pressure so I'm sure that helps prevent it. I know the DSM guys have been using it for years without any issues but that doesn't say much for GM. Personally I don't mind taking the risk to test it cuz the transmission I'll be using was only $75 lol.

To be honest Popo I don't have any real background. I took some automotive and accounting classes in college but never finished. I work in a factory and like it :) we build windshield wipers and have recently begun building electronic power steering motors and I was in charge of the second line when it first came over from Japan. It was cool cuz I got to watch million dollar machines building the parts and I was in charge of watching the specs lol. As far as background tho it just comes down to the fact that this is my hobby and if I want something I'll either buy it or build it but I'll never let someone tell me I can't have something I want for my truck. As you can see I can go to great lengths just to be right lol

[popo8]

Well Im very impressed man.

[Ghettogmc23]

Thanks Popo.
So if I do a write up for this do I just edit the first post and add it there or start a new thread? I'd like to simplify this for everyone lol

[popo8]

I say do ur write up... And put it i this thread wherever and however u want. but copy and paste it in a new thread also.. ANd I will Lock it and Sticky it.

LTXtech.com is my drug.

[Ghettogmc23]

I lost the copy and paste I had so ill do this. I'm sure there's smarter computer people than me that can post it here if needed but my phone takes forever to upload pics and stuff lol
http://ltxtech.com/forums/showthread.php?25757-Wireless-Paddle-Shifter-How-To&p=379039#post379039

[bigtoyz]

I was beginning to think of doing something like you did.....Really would help me out since I use one hand to drive and other to operate the gas.....Im in a wheelchair and use hand controls to drive. So I'll be checking in on this thread. And for the price that your at is very doable for me now.

[Ghettogmc23]

Glad I could help. Based off your sig that sounds like a car that could benefit from some better control lol.

[bigtoyz]

It drives pretty straight thankfully but doesn't hurt to make things better. Like to wrap up my build and make a LTx shootout.

[JCzNova]

I was beginning to think of doing something like you did.....Really would help me out since I use one hand to drive and other to operate the gas.....Im in a wheelchair and use hand controls to drive. So I'll be checking in on this thread. And for the price that your at is very doable for me now.

You have hand controls in a T/A?!?! That's awesome. Got any pics?

[Blackbird96WS6]

You have hand controls in a T/A?!?! That's awesome. Got any pics?

+1 I'm curious to see how that's set up, too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2

[Ghettogmc23]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/02/01/ebesyzyn.jpg

Just got the external gear display. Wires are about 4-5 foot long so it can be mounted just about anywhere. Has a bit of delay over the box readout but probably won't be noticeable when not looking at them side by side. Now the box can be hidden unless needed and still know the gear.


JAG- Project FrostFire

[JCzNova]

+1 I'm curious to see how that's set up, too.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337 using Xparent Red Tapatalk 2


You have hand controls in a T/A?!?! That's awesome. Got any pics?

Don't leave us hanging bigtoyz !!!

[bigtoyz]

Oh sorry didn't mean to....its finally nice out today so I can get out. I'll get some pics this afternoon. Its just been so cold in Mn this winter that I haven't been out to much this winter. single digits and wind chill I don't go out or cant get out all that much.

[bigtoyz]

I started new thread for the hand control not to change his thread....and to try and keep it on topic for him.

[Ghettogmc23]

Update! Got impatient and decided to swap the system into my 97 just to make sure it's all fool proofed before I swap my 91 to a 4l60e and have issues. Good thing I did.
Took the time to wire it all up, got it ready to drive around the block to test and it was stuck in 3rd gear. So did some testing on it and found out that I need to add more relays.
The reason is EVERYTHING on this setup is designed to use a power signal. The issue is though that GM and the wireless remote setup require ground signals to activate. So now it has to have 2 relays for the paddle shifters, 2 relays to activate the transmission solenoids, and possibly 2 more for the signal from the pcm to the solenoids because they have to run signal through the shift box now. Will post back soon. Hoping to get a video of them in action this weekend.
Since my black jimmy is retaining factory control with optional manual control I had to mount a toggle switch to go between the two. At least that worked good lol
http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/04/17/da7a9e7y.jpg


JAG- Project FrostFire

[Ghettogmc23]

Well the system is all installed. Test drove it and it's just amazing! It has a slight delay to it (I think it's in the buttons on the paddles) but it's still nicer than using the shifter and definitely more fun. Unfortunately to use the pcm control it needs 2 more relays which brings the total to 6 relays for this setup lol all thanks to GM using ground signals and Mitsubishi using power signals. Hoping to get a video in the morning and post up a wiring diagram for anyone interested


JAG- Project FrostFire

[Blackbird96WS6]

Sweet, congrats man! Makes me want to do this to Monika's C4... Lol

Just another all show no go bird

[popo8]

Can u do a vid of it in use... Dont film and drive...get the wife to film...

LTXtech.com is my DRUG!

[Ghettogmc23]

28342
Hope this is clear enough. The relays have a few more wires but ill post them from my phone when i can. videos will be uploaded soon. Got them made just have to run and get food for the family real quick before i can upload them.

[Ghettogmc23]

http://youtu.be/T7J6uNSa-FM


http://youtu.be/ABaiiWkz2FY

[firebird_1995]

You are ready to sell one of these yet?