Something is Broken!

[atufo1475]

Okay so I was having knock sensor issues with my car, fixed the issues and car engine wise is running great.

Right after I fixed it I took it out for some seriously "spirited" driving (car has never run this good)

And I was pulling hole shots and I was at redline in 3rd, went to shift to 4th but it wouldn't go easy so I sort of revved up a bit and jammed it in (stupid I know)

And after that it came out of gear but wouldn't go into any other gear easily without rev matching...

So I'm like ****

Fix one issue, create another.

So tonight after work I installed a new slave cylinder (old one looked fine but I figured what the hell)

And nothing changed.

Thing is, car didn't lose any fluid from the master or the clutch reservoir.

So I'm thinking something internal is screwed up.

When I start the car in neutral, I can't get it to go in any gear without rev matching.

And when I start it in gear it makes this horrible screeching sound and even with the clutch in it accelerates.

I am a shop bitch at firestone, and one of the Master Techs (ASE) was telling me that I probably broke the fingers off of the pressure plate?

I don't have hardly any experience with clutch systems or transmissions really so this whole thing is going to be a learning experience.

Also my dad thinks I might have screwed up the clutch fork?

Anyone have any ideas on how to check for sure?

And any recommendations as too what complete clutch kit I should buy?

Really want something stage 3 so it will put up with a beating...

A kit that comes with new flywheel and everything.

Sorry for the long post guys just didn't want to leave anything out.

Thanks for reading!

[atufo1475]

Thoughts?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/121125981366?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

I know what everyone says "you get what you pay for"

But I did some research and apparently this is a decent brand?

Not sure where else I can find a stage 2 or 3 for this cheap as a complete kit.

[atufo1475]

Actually people seem pretty happy with this one

http://www.ebay.com/itm/XTD-STAGE-3-CLUTCH-FLYWHEEL-93-97-CAMARO-FIREBIRD-LT1-/200962620153?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Year%3A1995%7CMake%3AChevrolet%7CModel%3ACama ro&hash=item2eca4e3af9&vxp=mtr

Any thoughts guys?

[Sahara54]

Pull the trans and see what's what first before you chuck more money at it. If it is your clutch, I would look at a spec stage 3/3+. Your flywheel should be fine unless it's gouged or really burned so that should save you a few pennies.


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[atufo1475]

Okay I am a trans noon, so what exactly should I be looking for?

I know when I pulled the slave cylinder, I put my finger in the little divot thing on the inside of the side of the trans where the slave rod goes in (I think that's the fork) and it had quite a bit of loose forward back play, like half an inch or so.

Is that conclusive at all?

And as far as pulling the trans, do you know of any decent guides?

[popo8]

How does the clutch ped feel?


When I first had my camaro, I was thrashing on it...went for a fast 1-2 shift and all the sudden the clutch ped when dead....like it did NOTHING.

Turns out when we pulled the trans I seperated the clutch disk... (the inner from the outer).

[atufo1475]

That's the thing, when I blew my old BMW clutch, the pedal like dropped to the floor and wouldn't come back up.

However mine isn't doing that, like I have solid pressure on the clutch, even more since the new slave and bleed procedure.

[Blackbird96WS6]

The clutch fork will have about a half inch of play to it, as that's the amount of wiggle room it has on the throw out bearing - no worries there. As for a nice breakdown guide to pulling the trans, I used this just this past Sunday and it went well for us:

http://www.mightyquick.cz28.com/custom.html

We didn't follow it quite to the letter, but I had the car up on a 2-post lift and we just removed the drive shaft all together and corked the rear of the tranny with a transmission plug. I HIGHLY recommend doing this with 2 people, I wouldn't try this alone myself.

Remove center console inside the car
Remove shifter assembly
Unplug everything from the transmission
Remove torque arm
Remove drive shaft and cork tranny
Get a transmission jack securely under the center of the trans
Unbolt the slave cylinder and set it aside (don't let it hang, I set mine on the LCA) and remove the little clutch fork housing piece
Undo all the cross bracing holding it to the car
Unbolt the transmission from the bellhousing
Carefully wiggle and pull it away from the bellhousing
You should now be able to inspect the pressure plate for any damaged fingers

If you feel like checking your clutch and flywheel, continue below:
Unbolt the starter and shove it out of the way toward the front of the engine
Remove the dust shield from the front of the bellhousing
Unbolt the bellhousing from the block
Unbolt pressure plate in star pattern and very slowly/carefully
Have your helper catch the pressure plate and clutch disk as you unbolt it so they don't fall out and smash a finger/foot or hit the ground and break something
Inspect for damage.

You will need a clutch disk alignment tool to get it all back together if you remove the PP and clutch.

[Blackbird96WS6]

A little trick we used to get the clutch fork back on "easier" upon reassembly was this:

24212

Once you get the transmission stabbed again, leave yourself just enough room to work and no more, or the whole thing will come out again. Pay close attention to that photo and you'll see we removed the lower bolt that holds the slave cylinder on by putting both nuts on it facing opposite each other and tightening them against each other, then using that to unscrew the bolt from the bellhousing. This gives you more room to play with the fork and get it in easier. Get the fork seated on the TOB and use a flexible head ratcheting wrench over the bolt in the fork. Get the bolt lined up with the bolt hole in the trans and use a pry bar to put pressure on the bolt head as you tighten it down to get it to go in the hole. Make sure the square block on the backside of the fork aligns with the square socket in the trans (you'll see what I mean when you're looking at it). Once that's all on, then thread the slave cylinder bolt back into place and get everything buttoned up again in the reverse order you took it apart.

[96LT1355Z28]

We are a Spec dealer and we can also get several other brands if you do need a clutch. I will agree with others and say it sounds like a TOB or clutch engagement issue.

[atufo1475]

Thanks man! It's crazy how that all worked out on facebook and all!

But I think I'm gonna roll with a local built stage 2 clutch this time, mainly because I have to have this car back running great by the end of Sunday, and every clutch I found online, Spec included, wasn't going to be delivered until next week.

Supposedly the guy who is building it is very good, and even though its a stage 2 its very stiff and can with stand a beating (I sure hope so).

But hopefully when I do my next clutch I can spend a bit more time and do some research and buy probably a spec 3+ or at least a stage 3 of some sort.

Thanks guys for your help!

Hopefully I won't be asking panic questions while under the car!

[Blackbird96WS6]

Haha we're here if you need us. You have me on here and on FB. Tapatalk and FB are both synced on my phone, so any PMs on either will hit me wherever I am and I generally respond fast unless I'm busy and can't get to my phone.

[96LT1355Z28]

I really need to stop being stoubborn and join FB :(

[Blackbird96WS6]

I really need to stop being stoubborn and join FB :(

Lol do it! It's not just for teenagers and their drama bullshit anymore. ;)

[popo8]

I really need to stop being stoubborn and join FB :(

yes u do.

MEMBER @ LTXtech.com

[atufo1475]

Alright everybody, something crazy happened today.

So all day yesterday I was running around town frantically getting parts for the clutch job (disk, pressure plate, throwout bearing, flywheel) which took me 11 different places to finally find a throw out bearing, even GM discontinued them. I asked the parts clerk what happens when they work on a car that needs one and he said "well......" and that was all lol.

But today I cleared my garage out completely so I could get my car all the way in on jack stands, so I do that and proceed to pull the car in.

I start it in 1st gear and it screeches like crazy but the clutch is more or less engaging and disengaging.

But I pull it in, realize I need to move it back and without thinking I just push the clutch in and shift it to reverse, and.. IT WORKED FINE!

So I was like what the hell and drove my car around the block and it's pretty much fine, but the clutch does feel weird but I'm pretty sure it feels weird because I hardly bled the new slave cylinder.

And after further inspection of the old slave cylinder, the push rod that hits the clutch fork was bent pretty badly.

So I'm thinking when I jammed my foot in there I initially bent the push rod and it wasn't allowing the clutch to engage/disengage fully.

So I'm extremely happy I'm not rushed to do this job in one day before I have to be back at work, but I really need to figure out how to bleed this thing correctly.

All the guides I have found have been more or less shady and havn't worked the greatest.

My clutch resevoir cap also has a whole in it so I'm gonna try and patch that..

I have a full bottle of DOT 3 Brake fluid and am thinking I should flush out the old fluid and put in new.

Anyone have a really good way of bleeding the system?

The slave cylinder I put in has a bleed valve on it if that helps, thanks guys!

[popo8]

very odd.... im curious as to whats going on.

MEMBER @ LTXtech.com

[atufo1475]

Okay for an update and some assistance.

Went ahead and installed a new clutch master cylinder along with a brand new slave cylinder since advance auto was so generous and allowed me to make an exchange just to be safe.

Installed the new clutch master cylinder.

Bled the system outside of the car.

However I never touched the master cylinder, fluid ran from the reservoir to the master, then from the master to the slave cylinder and all I did was pump the push rod on the slave cylinder a bunch.

Which made it very stiff and air free, I cracked the bleed valve on the slave with the pushrod compressed and a solid stream of fluid came out with no air at all.

So I put everything back in the car...

Hop in the seat and I have 0 pedal pressure.

Like the slight back/bounce from the clutch master cylinder is all I'm getting.

I keep pumping and pumping and pumping and I get nothing.

Pulled the slave out and pump it and its still firm as hell.

Honestly don't get what is going on at all.

Only thing I can think of is faulty master out of the box?

Any info would be appreciated guys, my clutch issues seem to be never ending.

[atufo1475]

Anybody know what could be causing it to not build pedal pressure when the slave is clearly bled?

[ZOHAN]

When I put a new master and slave in, the slave had a bleeder and it still took me forever to build the pressure even though I thought it should be bled. I got a suction bleeder for the top and a whole lot of pumping and bleeding to work it up

Making you silky smooth...

[atufo1475]

See I've been use to it taking forever. But this is like no pressure at all, and it won't even build any pressure.
Like I've always been able to get it to slowly get firmer each pedal but now its like crazy "loose" and easy. Yeah I know nice word choice...

[dcarter21]

Check to make sure the clutch fork is lined up properly and isnt bent. Also check that the throwing bearing retainer clip hasn't dislocated itself from the pressure plate. I had this happen to me after a hard night of racing. The retainer ring came out, kicked the TB sideways in the Pp. It made it feel like i had no pedal. O'Reilly auto parts where i work sells just a TB for it. I can get u a part# tomorrow if u are still looking for one.

[richardson]

Check to make sure the clutch fork is lined up properly and isnt bent. Also check that the throwing bearing retainer clip hasn't dislocated itself from the pressure plate. I had this happen to me after a hard night of racing. The retainer ring came out, kicked the TB sideways in the Pp. It made it feel like i had no pedal. O'Reilly auto parts where i work sells just a TB for it. I can get u a part# tomorrow if u are still looking for one.
similar symptoms and my outcome was that the clutch fork actually warped the throw out bearing and eventually broke it. I had metal shavings in the housing where the slave sits.