Lets make some guesses!!

[Fastbird]

Going back to the dyno on Monday to get a complete retune on the car. Was at 767/712 on an ok tune at 20# boost. Probably turning boost up to 23-25# and anticipating a little more aggressive tune this time around. Nothing has changed on the setup.

383, LE TFS Heads, BRE Cam (234/244 .610/.610 110 LSA), 58mm TB, PT76GTS, Meth, 12 bolt, etc.

Care to make any wagers?????

[popo8]

I honeslty do not have a guess... but I can say that Frank will make it EVERYTHING it can be. The guy knows boost, and Stand Alones (esp the xfi stuff) is his forte'

Please update asap!!!

[CamaroZGuy]

with that much more boost and a more aggressive tune. ill guess at least 850-875hp

[joelster]

I see you have a BRE cam. For a boost cam it seems a little tight being on a 110. Bret knows his shit though so i'm sure it's gonna rock! I'm gonna say 835hp/802tq if it's a dynojet.

[Fastbird]

Now I will say the cam is wrong for my setup IMO. It was designed when I originally had a procharger kit sitting ready to go. I've spoken with Bret and he said I'm only giving up maybe 20 hp on the top end. I'm really tempted to try something smaller duration with a wider LSA at some point though given how well the baby GT2-3 worked in my Vette. I gained 100 hp and tq going from 15 to 20 lbs, so I'm wondering if the same will hold true with another 5.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[BIG CAT]

Now I will say the cam is wrong for my setup IMO. It was designed when I originally had a procharger kit sitting ready to go. I've spoken with Bret and he said I'm only giving up maybe 20 hp on the top end. I'm really tempted to try something smaller duration with a wider LSA at some point though given how well the baby GT2-3 worked in my Vette. I gained 100 hp and tq going from 15 to 20 lbs, so I'm wondering if the same will hold true with another 5.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

more duration and a wider lsa. 24x with at least a 113 lsa.

[joelster]

If the cam is a solid roller, you can back the lash off a touch and see if it picks up power. If you go from say .017" int/exh lash and dyno it, and then reset it at .020"int/exh and it picks up power you know you'll be losing some power being on a 110.

[Fastbird]

Not a SR though Joel. Good thought, but I can't take advantage of it.

Big Cat, I'm wondering if more duration was the way to go. It seems like with the turbo cars the smaller cams seem to do better overall than the bigger cams. I was thinking in the mid 220's to lower 230's would be a good fit. I'm at 234/244 right now, but the tight LSA is costing me I'm sure of it. My thinking is that even with the wider LSA, the longer duration cam is going to inherently have more overlap (this is based off of the normally spoken of .050 specs, not the advertised .006 specs obviously) due to the extended duration. I think on the car my issue (and why I think it's underperforming) is that the tight LSA coupled with the duration on the cam is simply letting too much cylinder pressure bleed off. But, I'm no expert either, and could be totally wrong. I just feel like 20# of boost is too much to "only" make the 767 it was at. I'm hoping we find out that the tune needed work and I get better on the same boost on Monday.

[joelster]

What intake manifold are you running?

Use some of these calculators to give you an idea of how much overlap:

http://wallaceracing.com/overlap-calc.php

Keep in mind that you don't make any power when the valves are open!

[Fastbird]

LE ported LT4 manifold.

I know the setup is performing, and maybe it's just a psychological thing because of how easily my Vette made the power, but at 15 lbs I originally went 66x/614 and at 20 lbs I went 767/712. I just feel like the TQ is lower than it should be and that the power level should be higher with the amount of boost I'm running. All the piping is 3", intercooler core is 4" with 3" inlet/outlet, typical routing behind the rad around front and up like stock routing.

[The SRZ]

Gonna say 830/796.

GL!

[Fastbird]

Gonna say 830/796.

GL!

I'd be tickled pink if my tq came up that much.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[blackbirdws6]

840rwhp/785rwtq will be my guess but I hope it puts down more.

[BIG CAT]

LE ported LT4 manifold.

I know the setup is performing, and maybe it's just a psychological thing because of how easily my Vette made the power, but at 15 lbs I originally went 66x/614 and at 20 lbs I went 767/712. I just feel like the TQ is lower than it should be and that the power level should be higher with the amount of boost I'm running. All the piping is 3", intercooler core is 4" with 3" inlet/outlet, typical routing behind the rad around front and up like stock routing.

the duration will have a big influence on the power. for me a 12* duration increase at 0.050 made a 10 mph gain in the 1/8th and 13 in the 1/4.
i would not get hung up on the dyno number as much as how it performs in anger. after i changed cams from a 23x to a 24x i had to pull a fair amount of time to get the car to work. it made so much low rpm power it would blow the tires off at the hit. put it this way i leave with less timing than i have at 20psi.

[Fastbird]

the duration will have a big influence on the power. for me a 12* duration increase at 0.050 made a 10 mph gain in the 1/8th and 13 in the 1/4.
i would not get hung up on the dyno number as much as how it performs in anger. after i changed cams from a 23x to a 24x i had to pull a fair amount of time to get the car to work. it made so much low rpm power it would blow the tires off at the hit. put it this way i leave with less timing than i have at 20psi.

Taken into consideration for sure. The only "anger" the cars seen was a couple of easy shakedown passes last fall, at the old tune. It trapped 133 on a 2.18 launch that it completely fell on it's face, and easy shifting. I think the performance is there, and next time to the track, I WILL be launching under boost on the progressive limiter in the XFI. Should come out of the hole a little harder methinks.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i177/Fastbird93/IMAG0134.jpg

Loaded up and ready to go. OF COURSE, it starts raining, and is calling for rain tomorrow. Gonna make road tuning fun.

[joelster]

Car looks sweet!

[RealQuick]

800rwhp/750rwtq

[RealQuick]

Come on Sean... we all know you can view this thread from your phone... time for updates!

[b-radlewis]

Come on Sean... we all know you can view this thread from your phone... time for updates!
I agree! The suspense is killing us!

[Fastbird]

Today was no bueno. I'm pretty dejected/pissed/irritated/torqued/whatever other synonym and adjective I can use about today. Will hash it all out later, going to take a step back for a day or two.

[popo8]

Today was no bueno. I'm pretty dejected/pissed/irritated/torqued/whatever other synonym and adjective I can use about today. Will hash it all out later, going to take a step back for a day or two.


Sorry it didnt go well.

[The SRZ]

Today was no bueno. I'm pretty dejected/pissed/irritated/torqued/whatever other synonym and adjective I can use about today. Will hash it all out later, going to take a step back for a day or two.

WTF? Got to get some details as to what happened. Sorry to hear the news. Tellin ya man, it's these old ass LTx's that are trying to tell us something. LOL

[RealQuick]

Yeah, what happened?

[Fastbird]

Ok, I just had to take a day and clear my head. This is really going to sound stupid, but I just had an awful time yesterday.

First and foremost, Frank at PSI took incredible care of me. Absolutely top notch, really a true professional and pleasure to deal with. The dyno is a mustang dyno, which will come into play later.

So we get the car loaded up Sunday night, no problems. Monday morning comes, and it's flipping raining. Of course. Get a late start, and show up about 30 minutes late due to me having had the wrong addy to the shop.

Get the car on the dyno, and not too long after that, Frank has it going and sounding great. Make a couple of light boost pulls on the gate, 4 lbs was around 350 rwhp with like no timing, came up to around 500 at 4 lbs with timing. All seems well. Start turning up the boost. Got up to 13 lbs, car made 657/555 on the mustang dyno. This is VERY important, because our first "tuned and lets see what it's doing before upping the boost" pull in 2010 was on a dynojet at 15 PSI and made 660/614. So right there is my biggest plus. I'm making MORE power at less boost now thanks to the tune alone. Awesome. :claps: Only thing Frank was saying is that it's lazy coming in on the boost.

Start turning up the boost. 13 lbs. adjust again. 13 lbs. adjust the other way. 10 lbs. Nope, go the opposite way again on the controller, make a huge correction. 13 lbs. WTF! SO we start poking and prodding. BOV is good, nothing plugging the exhaust, turbo shaft play is fine, car is running awesome. Can't figure it out. The we pop the JGS 50mm wastegate off. It looks fine, until we pop off the dump pipe and notice something startling. The valve on the wastegate isn't sealing at all. There's a huge gap around the entire valve. So we pull the wastegate apart and see if it's the valve stem rusting. Nope, and weirder it's extending as far as possible. The frank mentions the following, and what' missing. There is a flanged valve seat that clamps between the two wastegate mount v-band flanges. This valve seat extends in a seals against the valve to close the wastegate off. You can actually hear my wastegate sitting letting air through at idle. He spent some time trying to machine up a piece to work, with no luck. So we shimmed the spring in an attempt to see if a heavier spring pressure would help. Same result. The wastegate is leaking that much air that 13 psi is all it's making, plus with the leaking air, the laziness on coming up on boost is explained too.

Now, this is where I have issues. The car sat at the shop it was originally tuned at in December of 2010 for about a month after I left. Then it was in the hands of someone who is by all rights a person I hate and who shares no friendly feelings towards me either (don't ask, NOT getting into it) for a few months before sitting at our house until I came home. This missing valve seat did NOT simply fall off the car. The wastegate had to be removed, and it had to be taken off, then the wastegate reinstalled. Yes, I'm saying someone somewhere intentionally jacked with my car. I don't now who because I trusted the shop it was at, and the person who had it for a few months didn't have the knowledge to know what removing that flange would do (but on a side note, I went 133 at about 13 psi making in the lower to mid 600's.....can't wait to get it up in the high boost again). I have more issues with this than anything. That flange was there when I was on the dyno before, it had to have been otherwise the wastegate would have been acting as it is now. Now it's gone, and it wasn't by accident.

During the course of the few hours we spent tracking the boost issue, I had to send my brother in law home with the trailer because he had to be at work. He calls me about halfway there.......one of my bosses trailers ramps departed at some point. So now I have to pay for that too. Just awesome. What's even more awesome is that my boss sends me a message saying that hte ramps are $190, but they're a different design. I'll be working for free for $380 worth it looks like. Even better. :shiner:

So, we're doing driveability tuning and just polishing it up, and Frank is making a pull, when BAM! Car shuts off. And won't restart. Y'all know what that means right? Yeah, I was thinking it too. Thankfully, it wasn't the issue. We were getting spark. I pulled the coil wire, and while holding it, wasn't paying attention and grounded myself. I got zapped like a mofo. Then we pulled a plug wire, still got spark there. Fuel was priming and pump was working, so WTF? On a whim, I checked the fuses, and sure as shit, both injector fuses popped. Weird, but problem solved. Hell of a scare though.

So we finished up with me quite upset at the missing part, and dejected that I couldn't get the car where it was supposed to be. What was supposed to be a quick in and out retune turned into a day filled with sabotage, the development of a nasty oil leak from the pass valve cover, a costly loss of trailer parts, and a car that's not where it should be. And I'm not done yet. I had a 2.5 hour drive home to deal with on a car that hasn't proven it's ability to stay cool.

Thankfully, it was in the lower 60's and raining, keeping the temps down. On the highway, turning 2000 RPM constantly at 70 MPH, the hottest the car got was about 225 on the gauge which is fairly accurate since I did the 3 wire temp sender mod. Slow it down a tad, and it came down to 210*. So it's simply not getting airflow for the RPM's being turned. Yes, the car made it home. BUT........I have zero sound on my stereo now too.......of course. Another plus is that the gas mileage has gone WAY up. Before it was on empty after about 120 miles. I'm at 130 miles now and the car is showing about 2/3 a tank still, so I know it's got another 50 miles in it probably. I can hange with that, that's 15 MPG, or a 50% increase.

So here's where I'm at. I've been working with JGS Precision, and just ordered the valve seat today. So that'll be in soon. The plus is that Frank has my VE scaled for 25# and also has the timing set for it. He said this tune is safe to run whatever boost I want up to that scaling on. Ok, we're golden there then, just need to install and set boost. Cool. Stereo, I think is the speaker wiring, and I may have removed the wrong wires laying around when I did the carpet. Will know that soon too. Cooling issue......I'm looking at throwing a big high CFM cooling fan on the a/c condenser as a pusher. Either that or throwing two of the nastiest 14" pushers I can find, offset, and that should make it good.

It was a LONG day. I was gone before 8 and didn't get home until after 9 PM. It was a frustrating day. I did a lot of wrenching. I did a lot of tinkering. It's VERY frustrating to think you're going to be in and out because nothing changed, then you find out that integral parts are missing and shit goes to hell with your plan. The car still doesn't cold start worth a damn but Frank had nothing to work with there so I'll be polishing that up myself. It runs good, it sounds good, and it's getting there, but it was a disheartening day due to the issues we had.

More to come on this story. I'll be pulling the wastegate sometime soon and getting pics. The stereo is out right now and I'm going to see about getting the thing going again cause I MUST have my tunes. And there's so much little stuff to tidy up that I don't even want to get into it at this point. Leaks, vac leak (Vent selector isn't fully functional, most slots come out the defroster now), etc. My car has turned into a pile it seems. I know this big sob story thread seems trite, but the expectations I had that were nothing but realistic were completely dashed due to a variety of reasons, and even with the good, I can't help but be frustrated about how the day went down.

And as I said before, Frank really took care of me. He quoted me $500 to tune the car. Not included in that quote was about 2-3 hours worth of diagnosis, machining, testing, etc. And he still only charged me $500. He completely earned my good word and my future business. And Larry, you're right. His shop is flat out AWESOME.

[joelster]

I was dreading reading the story, but aside from the trailer ramps I think you guys came out pretty good. You found the problem, have the solution coming in, have a safe tune, and made promising numbers. For those guys that don't know a Mustang Dyno reads a lot lower than a Dynojet. It's only mid May! The motor is in one piece!

What water pump are you running?

[jaysz2893]

^^ I agree. It is frustrating even for us that make less than half that power, but sometimes I wouldnt have it any other way. Chin up Sean, car is still badass!

posted with my rooted and ICS'd T-bolt using tapatalk 2.

[Fastbird]

Joel, I'm running a Meziere.

I'm most down about the missing part that was taken off of the car. That really has me bothered. It's fixable, but someone screwed with the car at some point.

I just gotta get the bugs worked, the boost under control again, and get back on the rollers to verify the tune.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[popo8]

Sorry if I bugged you yesterday Sean... and I feel bad for all the bad things that occured. Was the wrong address thing, my fault... ?


PS- Im so very happy Frank treated you well....

[joelster]

I figured you had an electric. The problem with them is they run at 1 speed only. So if you increase the engine rpm which makes more heat, the pump is still running at a speed only sufficient to keep it cool while spinning at a lower rpm.Throw it in 6th on the highway to keep the rpm's down, and make sure your air dam is in place to direct the airflow.

[RealQuick]

Damn Sean! No wonder the boost was lazy! The thing is gonna be a beast when you can make sone boost! Let me know if I can help! Are u gonna redyno to see what it makes?

[Fastbird]

Joel, I think its the airflow over the radiator more than anything. I'm probably at half the fan CFM of the stock setup with the thin fans I'm running. The na motor had the same water pump and never even ran over 200*.

Jon, I do plan to get back on the dunk once I set the boost, just to get some numbers and have some fun. Gotta get it fixed first.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[The SRZ]

Sean,

You are gonna crush those numbers judging by the way you only put 13lbs down w/ 660 numbers. My only thing is how in gods name you gonna run 23-25lbs of on straight 93 octane. Anything over 18lbs is pretty risky.

As for the sabatoge thing, been there done that and I know you've got to be livid about that. Straight bullshit right there and pissed off for you. That crap gave me flashbacks. Now as for injectors blowing the fuse, that's interesting and has given me something else to look at as I only looked at the XIM fuse that blew multiple times. I'll let ya know how that turns out.

And sorry about the ramp. That's just weird right there.

All I know is, nothing NEVER goes as planned. Life would be too easy if that were the case.

[blackbirdws6]

Sounds like a stressful day but I thought the story was goin to be way worse based on your after dyno initial post. Best to put what you can behind you and get the car squared away. Sounds like you are real close so I bet next time will be much more rewarding.

[SexyTransAm]

omg cant wit too see final numbers!

[Fastbird]

I didn't mean to mislead anyone or anything. I was just in a really foul mood when I got home and didn't want to rehash any of it.

Forgot a couple of things. We blew the coupler off the tb, first time ever, and when the car came off the dyno, we found a header bolt, and another was loose. No leaks, but WTF?

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2

[Fastbird]

Ok, update. Pulled the trigger on one of the highly recommended on the "other" site Derale 16925 12" pusher fans and a bottle of water wetter. Plan is to first check the derale for fitment into the stock shroud. If it fits on the drivers side, then I'll probably order a puller and replace one of the crappy fans I have. But worst case, I'm going to have the pusher on the a/c condenser pushing air through it and the radiator, and will add a second if the one doesn't do the trick. I AM expecting an improvement off of the one fan, they move a legit 2200 CFM of air.

Oh, and my valve seat for my wastegate went out today.

Hopefully, I'll be doing a LOT of tinkering this weekend. If it doesn't rain, like it usually does when I have a day off.

[harner]

What kind of radiator do you have?

Glad Frank took care of you. He's a good guy.

With the injector fuses going and stereo not working, maybe something is shorting out? Kind of weird that those fuses would go, both of them yet. Check the fuse on the head unit, if it's aftermarket and has one.

[ksmyss]

Joel, I'm running a Meziere.

I'm most down about the missing part that was taken off of the car. That really has me bothered. It's fixable, but someone screwed with the car at some point.

I just gotta get the bugs worked, the boost under control again, and get back on the rollers to verify the tune.

Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2My CSI/CSR pump was taking a dump on me. I decided to try the CVR HD pump from Summit. It is rated at 55 gpm while the CSI/CSR is in the mid 30s. IT really moves the water. The down side it that it is a good 3/4"-1" taller that the CSR unit. The impeller is huge.

I ran it around all day last Saturday in 90 degree heat and it never got over 170. The needle hardly moved off of 160. That is with no front air damn under the car and 70 mph runs down the high for 30 miles at a time.

[Fastbird]

My CSI/CSR pump was taking a dump on me. I decided to try the CVR HD pump from Summit. It is rated at 55 gpm while the CSI/CSR is in the mid 30s. IT really moves the water. The down side it that it is a good 3/4"-1" taller that the CSR unit. The impeller is huge.

I ran it around all day last Saturday in 90 degree heat and it never got over 170. The needle hardly moved off of 160. That is with no front air damn under the car and 70 mph runs down the high for 30 miles at a time.

You don't have a big turbo and a ton of hot piping in the engine bay either as well as a intercooler stealing airflow from the radiator. My issue is airflow and heat soak related. Got new Derale pullers going in this weekend though, should solve the problem.

[ksmyss]

Just throwing it out there incase you need more flow. I know people have had issues with the low rate of flow at highway speeds but now there are other options.

[Fastbird]

Just throwing it out there incase you need more flow. I know people have had issues with the low rate of flow at highway speeds but now there are other options.

No, I gotcha there. My case is simply that it was fine before, and with all the extra heat and airflow blockage I found the limitation. Hoping these new fans clean it up this weekend.

[RealQuick]

Updates?

[Fastbird]

Haha, guess I could have updated this thread. had boost control issues again, wastegate wouldn't hold it and it kept dropping. We got it to hold 15 PSI after a quick spike to 19, made 694 RWHP on the mustang dyno again, so probably the 720-730 range on a dynojet. I'm extremely happy about the results given it's at only 15 psi. LT1's don't seem to break 700 very often at that level. But......I'm worried there may be a backpressure issue in the hotside now because to make the 15 psi, we have the boost controller maxed out and it wouldn't go higher than the 15.

[RealQuick]

Haha, guess I could have updated this thread. had boost control issues again, wastegate wouldn't hold it and it kept dropping. We got it to hold 15 PSI after a quick spike to 19, made 694 RWHP on the mustang dyno again, so probably the 720-730 range on a dynojet. I'm extremely happy about the results given it's at only 15 psi. LT1's don't seem to break 700 very often at that level. But......I'm worried there may be a backpressure issue in the hotside now because to make the 15 psi, we have the boost controller maxed out and it wouldn't go higher than the 15.

Sean,
Dont forget, a boost controller will only pull the pressure up twuce the rating of the spring in the gate. If you only are using the standard 7psi that comes with the gate, the the controller is gonna struggle past 14-15psi. You could put in a 10 psi spring, then the controller should pull u to 20psi.

[Fastbird]

Sean,
Dont forget, a boost controller will only pull the pressure up twuce the rating of the spring in the gate. If you only are using the standard 7psi that comes with the gate, the the controller is gonna struggle past 14-15psi. You could put in a 10 psi spring, then the controller should pull u to 20psi.

Hmmmmm......and the JGS only comes with a 7 lb spring. Makes sense....but then again.....with pressure to the top side....should be able to override the pressure. Or by giving full pressure top side and cutting down on pressure seen on the bottom side couldn't I override that double spring pressure rule? I was under the impression that's how it worked and the double the spring rule was only for either no signal to the wg or full signal to both wg ports.



Sent from my Kindle Fire using Tapatalk 2

[shownomercy]

Get a Eboost with C02, all teh adjustments!

[RealQuick]

From my understanding, with the controller, double the spring pressure is about max.

[Lcvette]

that sounds like a weird problem.. what boost controller are you running right now? Whenever I am heading to the dyno I always bring a trusty hallman ball and spring backup controller, when all else fails you can run as much boost as you want over base spring with one of those regardless of what gate spring you have. I highly recommend to anyone traveling to dyno or even if you don't have to travel, just to keep from being aggrevated. you can grab them for around $100 bucks and they are ROCK SOLID reliable! What size turbine housing are you running on the 76GTS? guessing a .96 A/R? I saw some backpressure with mine but I think you should be able to hold at least 21-23psi through redline on that turbo unless you have some boost leaks or are turning it to 7500 or something wild? Have you done a boost leak test on it? I know on mine I had some issues and discovered quite a few small leaks that added up. I think there were 5 total and once I fixed all of them I gained 3 pounds and they were pretty small mind you.

[Fastbird]

I'm using a Joe P Inline boost controller. Kind of like a Hallman in it's design. I'm actually going to move up to a Hallman once I get the car back into a garage next month. Bump to a hallman and hard lines to clean things up.

It's not boost leaks, it's spiking and then trailing as the RPM's come up. I'm NOT going to move to CO2. Am going to try to find a heavier spring for the wastegate and go from there.