Become a ltxtech.com member, Click here to register!
BP-Automotive

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 42
  1. #1
    InActive Member


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Cockeysville, MD
    Posts
    257

    Default CTSV front brakes.

    I just wrapped up the CTSV front brake conversion. It was fairly simple, but I did run into a few gotchyas and most write ups found are for LS1 cars. The process is similar but has a couple minor differences. I didn't take pictures of the process, as there isn't too much to it, but I will still do a bit of a walk through. I do have various pictures that should help either regardless. Please excuse the filth in the pictures. The car is my daily driver. It gets driven in rain, snow, sleet, sun, and traffic. It has been cold and cleaning the car has been low on the priorities.

    A little about me; just so it's known that I'm not some idiot behind a screen. I'm about to turn 29 years old. I've been a mechanic professionally (saying that makes me feel special) for about 9 years now. I got my ASE certifications a few years ago in brakes, suspension, engine repair and engine performance. Just to make it clear, engine performance isn't the cool stuff, it's about emissions and drivability. While the certs don't mean much, as they are mostly a word game, they do add a bit of credibility. As of right now, I work for UPS as a mechanic and have been there for 2 years. I was at my previous shop for 6 years.

    On to the brakes. Keep in mind, these brakes need a minimum of an 18" wheel to clear without grinding the caliper. My particular wheels (XXR 526, 18x9, 35mm offset) are very cheap in how they are built. They are basically like a 17" wheel with an 18" drum on them. I had to grind the hell out of the calipers to get them to clear. Also, in my case, I needed a wheel spacer for the spokes of the wheel to clear the caliper.

    So for a LT1 car, you will need:

    -CTSV 4-piston calipers

    I got mine off of Amazon. They were 250 shipped with pad hardware. Put 172-2288 into an Amazon search, and it will show "Frequently Bought Together". Yes one is a picture of a trans filter kit, but it is the correct part. 172-2287 is the number for the other caliper, and 18K1971X is the number for the pad hardware.

    -Brake pads.

    I used 2012 Camaro SS pads. They are pretty much the same, I just cut the little roller/ears off.

    -Rotors.

    I used 2012 Camaro SS rotors. They are 14" in diameter but the center hub is a smaller diameter than ours. I had a machine shop toss them on a lathe and open it up to 70.6-70mm. Cost me 50 bucks

    -Lines.

    I got a set of lines from Flynbye Performance. They were 85 bucks shipped and come with banjo bolts, crush washers and retaining clips.

    -98-02 spindles.

    Obviously, these will come off of ANY 98-02 car. The are required.

    -98-02 caliper bracket mounting bolts.

    These are the same as the CTSV brake caliper mounting bolts. Get them for a CTSV at the dealer, or grab some from the same car the spindles are from.

    -Brake fluid.

    May seem obvious, but it's better to mention it. I used a quart total

    -Brake Clean.

    I used one can of the good stuff. I should have gotten two.

    -Cotter Pins.

    The old ones can be reused, but new ones are worth the cheap price.

    -Loc-Tite
    .
    It's a good precaution.

    Optional/Possibly required items:

    -Wheel Spacers.

    I have a set of 1/4" spacers. I only have about 4 threads worth of engagement. To me, this is NOT safe. I will be trying to use a 3/16" spacer until I get longer studs. Always try to get a hubcentric spacer. They use the hub to center themselves, so they will not be able to wander. They are typically the same size as the face of the rotor, so there is more contact between the spacer, rotor and wheel.

    -Longer studs.

    Depending on wheel fitment and spacers, these may be needed. Id suggest studs that are the same length longer as the thickness of your spacers. 1/4" spacer, use 1/4" longer studs, etc.

    -New hubs.

    In my case, I hit a curb, trashed my alignment and knocked some play into the wheel bearings. Since I was putting new spindles on, I decided it was a perfect time to replace everything and got a pair of Timken hubs. From Rock Auto, they were 130ish a pair.

    Tools:

    -Jack and stands.

    -I use an aluminum Harbor Freight jack and aluminum stands. I live in an apartment so these are great for me.

    -Metric sockets.

    -Off of the top of my head, I needed 12mm, 13mm, 15mm and 18mm. I'd assume that anyone tackling this project would have most of these stuff anyways.

    -Standard socket.

    13/16 for the lower ball joint nut.

    -Metric line wrenches.

    The line on the body was 12mm if I remember correctly. You can use a standard wrench, but 10 bucks at Harbor Freight is cheap insurance to not round off the fitting. The brake bleeders are 11mm.

    -Hammer.

    Use something with some weight. I have a 3lbs Harbor Freight hammer.

    -Tie rod fork.

    I grabbed one when I was at Advance Auto one time.

    -Punch set.

    These are not 100% required, but they made some work much easier.

    -Big ole screw driver.

    Didn't need it much, but it did come in handy.

    -Safety glasses.
    Safety is never anything to skimp on.

    -Adjustable wrench.
    It came in handy.

    -Drain pan.
    To catch brake fluid.

    Optional tools/supplies or tools/supplies that may be needed:


    -Haynes or Chiltons manual.

    They can be a good resource.

    -Motive power bleeder.

    I have always wanted one of these, and it made life easier. I do most of my work by myself and this completely eliminated the need for assistance. You can use a Mity-Vac style bleeder, they work pretty okay, but I far prefer the Motive.

    -Grinder.

    This will depend on wheel fitment. I recommend using a corded grinder. I personally used a Dewalt 18v grinder, and burned through batteries like crazy.

    -Rubber gloves.

    Call me what you want, but I like having clean hands. Females tend to appreciate it too.

    -Paint/Supplies.

    If you want pretty calipers, now is the time.

    -1/2" Washers.

    Mock up purposes I will cover later.

    -Measuring devices.

    Because of my particular fitment, I used digital calipers (Harbor Freight special), a stainless Xacto brand ruler, and a tape measure.

    Getting started.
    Time to gather parts. I picked up most of my larger items from Rock Auto. The hubs, rotors, and pads came from them
    . I grabbed my calipers from Amazon. The spindles and caliper bolts came from a member here. The lines came from FlynBye Performance. You can get a lot of the stuff from parts stores, but because I had time by my side, I decided to save some money by shopping around.

    At this point, you will need to get the rotors machined. I drove around going place to place until I found a machine shop. Don't think engine shop here, most engine shops do not have the equipment required unless they actually make parts. The shop I found makes parts and tools for factories and specialty shops. I've seen people paying anywhere from 40 to 100 bucks for this service. They charged me 50 bucks, and I told them no hurry. It took about a week to get them done.

    The pads I bought ended up having some big Mickey Mouse ears on them with a steel "roller" on them. Just cut the buggers off with a cutoff wheel. I'm assuming they are there for NVH. I picked up ones for a 2012 Camaro, another application may not have them.

    Initial Mockup/Modifications.

    Once you have all of your parts/tools/supplies gathered up. It's time to mock things up. What I did was assemble the hub, spindle, rotor and caliper in my apartment. I then took a wheel off of the car and brought it inside. It was a royal pain in the butt, but I picked up the spindle assembly, which is not light by any means, and put it inside the wheel. In my case, the assembly would not fit. Not even close. The calipers hit the inner drum of the wheel no matter what I did.

    Here is the brakes assembled on the spindle:


    This was after some grinding:


    This is how the caliper looks after I completed grinding:




    This was my partner in crime:


    I took a lot of material off. I dug around the internet and found where plenty of other people did the same thing, and to be honest, I was still uneasy about it. I initially used a standard grinding wheel. The first caliper took me about 2 hours because of trying to be careful and taking my time. The second one took me about an hour. Even after I thought I had clearance, I had to grind more. I ended up using a 60 grit flap disk, and it ran through the aluminum much better than the grinding wheel. I don't know if it would take the mass amount of material off the grinding disk did, but it mowed through my final clearancing with grace and speed.

    Now that the caliper clears the wheel, it's time to assemble the brakes on the spindle and put the wheel back on the assembly. The caliper ended up hitting the spokes of the wheel. This is where you use the 1/2" washers. Most of the time, a washer is very close to 1/8" thick. Pull the wheel off, and place washers, one at a time, over the studs and reassemble until the caliper clears the spokes. I ended up needing two washers, which came out to 1/4". I suggest confirming the measurement with digital (or analog for that matter) calipers to be sure. I grabbed the spacers off of ebay. Make sure you get hub centric spacers.

    This is the spacer:


    Here it is on the hub with the rotor in place:


    This shows how the spacer centers itself on the hub. The cheapie spacers you get at the parts stores use the lugs to center themselves, and have very little surface area between the wheel and the rotor. This style is the best option for this type of spacer.

    This should help with initial planning:


    This will help give an idea of caliper clearance in relation to the hub.

    I would have measured from the center of the hub to the outside of the caliper before I ground it down but in my frustration, I just decided to start grinding away.

    Installation.

    Now the fun begins. This job took me about a day. Part of it is because I live in an apartment and my tools are never at hand. It being cold out doesn't help either. It can be done much faster if you have everything at your disposal and are hustling. The first side took me about 3/4 of the time, and other other about 1/4.

    -Removal of the factory spindles/brakes.

    Jack the car up, put it on stands (always on stands) and make sure it's secure. Remove the wheels and put them somewhere out of the way; or use them as a seat. That's your choice.

    Remove the old brakes/spindles. I left the entire assembly together. Start off by removing the brake line from the body. Leave the cap on the master cylinder at this point, do not remove it yet. Place a drain pan under the line. Use your flair wrench to break the line loose. You may want to use some penetrating oil as precaution. Leave it loose, but don't remove it from the rubber line. Remove the clip holding the rubber line to the body. Now finish removing the fitting from the rubber line, and pull the rubber line away from the body. Pro tip: take the rubber cap off of the caliper bleeder screw and place it on the metal line on the body. This prevents the mess and makes bleeding the brakes easier. Make sure to disconnect the wire to the ABS sensor. It is one the back of the hub assembly. Now remove the cotter pins from the tie rod end, upper ball joint and lower ball joint. Now remove the nut from the tie rod end. If memory serves me correctly, it was 18mm. Use the tie rod fork and hammer to separate the tie rod end from the spindle. You can beat on the spindle (NEVER the stud on the tie rod end) to separate them, but I can never seem to hit my intended target with a hammer, so the fork gave me some space. Now you can freely turn the spindle to get a wrench/socket on the lower ball joint. Remove the nut from the lower but don't separate it yet. Remove the nut from the upper now. Separate the lower ball joint first, and then separate the upper. I had to put a jack under the control arm to get a good angle on the upper ball joint. At this point, you should be able to grab the spindle/brake assembly, and remove it from the car. Do the same for both sides.

    I unfortunately don't have any pictures of this process. A Haynes or Chiltons manual would be a good resource if pictures are required.

    Now, take your old spindle assembly, and throw it as far as you can. In my case, that was about...4 inches.

    Installation of the CTSV brakes.

    Due to the sheer size and weight of the new brakes, I don't recommend trying to install the brakes as an assembly. Install the spindle with the hub first. Put the spindle on the lower ball joint and thread the nut on. Then bring the upper control arm down to get the upper ball joint in place, and thread the nut on. Now torque the lower ball joint nut to the correct torque rating (I don't know it off hand). Install the cotter pin, and then do the same for the upper. Now put the tie rod end in place, torque the nut and put the cotter pin in place. Pro tip: if the tie rod end spins in the spindle while you're trying to tighten the nut, put the jack under the tie rod end, and use it to place some upward pressure on the tie rod end. Then smack the spindle lightly with a hammer to help it seat. Install the nut and cotter pin like normal. This can also work with the lower ball joint.

    Now take the rotor, and slide it onto the hub. Use a lug nut or two to keep it from moving around. I had to put the spacer on and then the lug nut as my lug nuts are closed end. Clean the rotor using brake cleaner to remove the lubricants that prevent the rotor from rusting while on the shelf.

    Now install the caliper. Make sure the bleeder screws are facing upward. If the screws do not face upward, the brakes cannot be properly bled. The caliper is nice and simple. Set the caliper over the rotor, and the bolts will pass through the spindle from the rear, and thread into the caliper. Use a little bit of LocTite for added security and torque the bolts down.

    At this point, I installed the pads. It seemed to make life a bit easier this way. The pads slide in from the top, and the pin passes through both pads, and is secured by the little plastic clip that is on the pin. Set the pads in and install one clip. Use the punch and the hammer and gently tap the pin into the caliper until it stops. Now take the pad retaining clip *doohicky*, hook it under the pin, bend it downward toward where the next pin will be installed. Once the clip is in position, slide the pin over it, and tap it in like the previous pin.

    Here is a picture to illustrate that pad installation. It is slightly confusing when described:



    Now onto my least favorite part. Intalling the line. The lines are a generic line, with the CTSV fitting crimped on one end, and the F-body body fitting on the other side. There are two issues. One is that the lines have a natural tendancy to want to bend one direction because the line comes from a roll. The other problem is that the body side fitting seems to be for a 98-02 car, or at least a generic GM fitting. At this point, I am unsure. What I did, is put the line on the caliper first. Take the banjo bolt, put a copper washer under the head, slide it through the line, another copper washer, and then thread it into the caliper. Thread it on loosely so the line can still move around. Then put the line in the bracket for the brake line, and loosely thread the body side fitting in. Now you'll notice the clip that holds the line to the body is different. Slide it on the under side of the bracket, with the tab facing down.

    Here is a picture to illustrate:



    Once the clip is in place, rotate and move the line around until there is ample clearance between the line, strut, and tire. Now tighten down the banjo bolt and the brake line fitting. The banjo bolt is 13mm. Don't be afraid to He-Man the banjo bolt. The copper washers need to be crushed seal properly. Do the same for the other side.

    Now onto the brake bleeding. The method I used was quite easy. Using the Motive Power Bleeder, it was super simple and I didn't need a helping hand. A Mity-Vac style bleeder will also do the job, but I have had to do the traditional method afterwards. If a helper is around, they can be used to do the pedal pump method. I will not go too far into detail on how to bleed brakes. I'd assume most people who are tackling this job can at least bleed brakes.

    For the Power Bleeder, fill it with fluid, install the cap adapter onto the master cylinder, pump it to about 10-15psi, and crack the bleeder lose. It really is about that simple.

    Here it is set up on the car:



    This is the Mity-Vac style bleeder. I picked it up from Harbor Freight a few years back. I used the container to catch fluid for this project:



    No matter which method used to bleed brakes, always bleed the inside bleeder first. This will ensure that no amount of excessive air will get pushed through the outside half of the caliper. Bleed the inside until there is no air, and then the outside until there is no air. If there is any doubt that the air is completely gone, keep bleeding the brakes. Also, keep bleeding the brakes until the fluid is coming out clean. Brake fluid will absorb and retain moisture, which reduces it's hydraulic ability, along with lowering it's boiling point.

    I have heard many times that you need a Tech-II to properly bleed the brakes. For years, I had a brake light on because I had air in the ABS block. Using the Power Bleeder got the air out of the block and the brake light is out.

    Once the brakes are properly bled, start the car, and pump the brakes. The brakes will be soft for the first few pumps. That is the caliper pistons pushing the pads against the rotors. Once the pedal firms up, pump the crap out of them. Be mean to the pedal, put as much force on them as would be required for a panic stop. Shut the car off and check for leaks. Tighten up the banjo bolt and fittings if required.

    Now take the time to clean everything. Use brake cleaner to clean up any residual fluid, oils, grease, blood and sweat from the brakes.

    Put the spacers on (if required) and the wheels on. Make sure the wheels are properly torqued remove the car from jack stands.

    Test drive the car gently around the block to make sure there are no funky sounds and everything is working properly. Recheck the torque on the lug nuts.

    At this point, it should be safe to go bed the brake pads per the manufacturers instructions and have some fun.

    On my test drive, I heard a grinding noise. This was the result:



    Oopsies. Had to do some more grinding at this point.

    Here are a few finished pictures:






  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tbird232ci For This Post:


  3. #2
    InActive Member


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Cockeysville, MD
    Posts
    257

    Default

    Driving Impressions.

    Admittedly, I don't feel particularly safe driving the car hard with the stock studs and spacer, but I did drive it around the neighborhood to get a good feel for it.

    When I was first driving around my complex to test drive the car, I rolled up to about 25mph and stomped the brakes. This resulted in the ABS kicking in, and me feeling as if I was going to go through the windshield. Yes, I always wear my seat belt, but this was a complete shock.

    After I completed the job, which included having to do some more grinding on the calipers, I finally go to get a good feel for how the brakes felt. Initial impression is that they feel like stock brakes. They drive like normal brakes, and under normal conditions, there is no indicators that there are massive brakes on the car. Once you get a little momentum, and lean on the pedal, these brakes come to life.

    I would get to about 50mph, and do a series of stops. Each stop was using more and more pedal effort. The brakes felt incredible. It got to a point to where it felt like too much. The brakes limit are higher than my driving ability and the speeds I was driving. There was no point of downshifting while braking to slow down as the brake were stopping the car faster than I could go down gears!

    Once I get new studs installed, I will push the brakes much harder and give a much better review.
    Last edited by Tbird232ci; 03-26-2014 at 09:28 PM.

  4. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tbird232ci For This Post:


  5. #3
    "The Rock"


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Name
    Popo
    Vehicle
    1996 Impala with the heart of the old camaro. 1993 Corvette..
    Location
    Shillington, Pennsylvania, United States
    Posts
    61,345

    Default

    WOW... that is a great and DETAILED write up man...

    Thanku for takin the time to do it up!

    LTXtech.com is my DRUG!


    Our BIG MOMENT @ the 2012 LTXshootout

    http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=521756391174175

    1996 Camaro Z28: RIP 09/25/2016

    1994 Trans Am GT: SOLD 05/2017

    1985/1996GS clone: SOLD

    1996 Impala SS H/C, LT, with true dual exhaust, 4.10s, lowered, with CPT trans, many cosmetic mods, and a whole lot more to come...

    2002 Caddilac EscaladeL CAI, lowered, 6.0 , AWD..





  6. #4
    Overworked/Underpaid


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Name
    Peter Alpiger
    Vehicle
    1996 Trans Am WS6; 1994 Corvette [GS Clone]
    Location
    Carrollton, Texas
    Posts
    4,324

    Default

    Kick ass detail, thanks for taking the time to do such an in depth write up! Looks impressive stuffing such a huge disc and caliper under those wheels.

    Just another all show no go bird
    96 Trans Am WS6 LT1 M6: 10/7/11 - current: 245.7 RWHP / 266.2 RWTQ - 14.462s @ 98.28 MPH
    94 Corvette LT1 A4: 4/12/13 - current: No dyno #s yet - 9.547s @ 75.11 MPH (1/8 mile)
    92 Lumina Euro 3.4L LQ1 A4: 1/15/06 - current: The beater car that refuses to die...

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to Blackbird96WS6 For This Post:


  8. #5
    InActive Member


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Vehicle
    1997 z28 383 stroker
    Location
    oklahoma city,ok
    Posts
    2,859

    Default

    This should be a stickie or something @popo8


    Smoke tires not drugs

  9. #6
    Overworked/Underpaid


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Name
    Peter Alpiger
    Vehicle
    1996 Trans Am WS6; 1994 Corvette [GS Clone]
    Location
    Carrollton, Texas
    Posts
    4,324

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by casey20000007 View Post
    This should be a stickie or something @popo8


    Smoke tires not drugs
    Agreed!

    Just another all show no go bird
    96 Trans Am WS6 LT1 M6: 10/7/11 - current: 245.7 RWHP / 266.2 RWTQ - 14.462s @ 98.28 MPH
    94 Corvette LT1 A4: 4/12/13 - current: No dyno #s yet - 9.547s @ 75.11 MPH (1/8 mile)
    92 Lumina Euro 3.4L LQ1 A4: 1/15/06 - current: The beater car that refuses to die...

  10. #7
    InActive Member


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Cockeysville, MD
    Posts
    257

    Default

    I'm glad you guys like it. I had a hell of a time finding details on this project. The write ups I found were not very complete, poorly written, and had little-to-no follow through. Rather than bitch about it; I wrote one up to help out the community. This is written up specifically for LT1 cars and specifically for this forum.

    If you guys have any questions, or see any info that may be left out, feel free to ask.

  11. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Tbird232ci For This Post:


  12. #8
    Banned


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Name
    Big Papi
    Vehicle
    2015 Fusion Titanium AWD
    Location
    Moscow Mills Mo
    Posts
    7,241
    Blog Entries
    1

    Default

    Great write up!

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to Chris For This Post:


  14. #9
    "Project Storm Trooper"


    Status
    Offline
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Name
    Tony
    Vehicle
    93 StormTrooper Z28
    Location
    Rapid City, SD
    Posts
    4,810

    Default

    awesome write up!

    Official Member of $30k Club ​- Work in progress
    1993 Z28- 24x EFI, Clayton Racing 383ci, F1a w/FMIC, AFR 210's, LE Custom cam, LE LT4 Intake/heads, 80# injectors, 255lph/340lph pumps, T56 Conversion, 9" 4.11 w/spool, LPP LT w/Borla, Full UMI suspension....
    1987 Iroc-Z - Stock Summer DD

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to CamaroZGuy For This Post:


  16. #10
    LTx Guru


    Status
    Online
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Name
    Fred
    Vehicle
    1994 Formula - SOLD
    Location
    Central NJ
    Posts
    2,279

    Default

    Excellent writeup. Easy to tell it was done by a true "professional".

    For people that go to NHRA tracks, using a hubcentric spacer is required, and your lug nuts must engage the stud threads in an amount equal to the diameter of the stud. In other words, if you are using a 12mm stud, you have to have a minimum of a 12mm length of the threads in the hex portion of the lug nut.

    Just for reference, this is what the brakes look like on the CTS-V... belongs to a buddy of mine:

    Ignore photo.... this is apparently a 2nd-Gen CTS-V with 6-piston calipers.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Injuneer; 03-27-2014 at 05:23 PM.
    SOLD - GONE TO A (VERY) GOOD HOME ! - 94 Formula A3+1: 381ci forged stroker - Callies Stealth, Oliver 5.85 billet rods, BME nitrous pistons / CNC LT4 heads / CC solid roller / TH400+GearVendors OD / 4.11 Strange 12-bolt / 300-shot N2O / Spohn Suspension / roll bar / MoTeC M48 Pro engine management system /a few other odds 'n ends.

Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •